Turbo thoughts?

[RSchwarzli]

So, it appears I will be towing a 10K lbs trailer to BC this fall with the 1990. Two thoughts come to mind. Fix all the issues, and fix and not yet issues! :-laf



The way my motor is currently set up, I get 31 PSI WOT, and put down 273/650 on the dyno. My question is when I start pulling through mountains and get into the long grades at high altitudes, do you think I will have an issue with EGT's? I have not towed enough yet with this power level to know what my EGT will be under load like that. I have pulled that trailer a few times so far and 1200 was seen on decent hills but...



Thoughts? Should I be dialing back the fuel pin or is it time to put the HX35 on? I dont want more power as the clutch wont take too much more...



I dont want to be doing 40 mph up the side of the hills, but I do not want to bake the motor either...



Help!



Motor is stock except for banks intercooler, 60 psi intake and exhaust springs, 4" full exhaust turbo back, and fuel screw.



Robert

 

[cerberusiam]

Yeah, its gonna get hot. The 45 mph up the 10 mile grades with engine temp sitting at 240 and the EGT's at 1300 make for a long nervous trip, and I have a better turbo than an HX35.



Since you have a manual it will help some but not enough at that weight. IMO, forget the HX-35 and find yourself a HE351CW or HE351VE and do the conversion now. Either will make much better air at 25-30 psi than any HX and have much more on the top end when you need it to run in direct.



You already have the 4" exhaust so the CW would be minimal effort to transplant, The VE takes more work but it has some great manners when you get it tuned right.

 

[Flexiheep]

Not completely relevant, since I have an auto, but my experience with a 10-11K trailer (11. 5' tall travel trailer) has been good.



Engine has PDR 190 injectors, turned in fuel screw, stock H1C with 18cm exhaust housing, 4" dp and exhaust, and a 2000 intercooler/rad combo. Max boost I have seen is 28 psi, not sure the hp/tq. I have 3. 55 gears and 265/75/16 tires, lower gears (4. 10) would bring the rpm up and lower boost/water temp at a given road speed.



I can run up to about 23 psi before EGT climbs, this is normal since the H1C falls off the map there, an HX35 would help keep EGT down at the higher boost levels. I believe a "normal" HX35 will fall off its map by 30 psi though, I think if you search stuff by Bushwacker he is the one who talked about it while he was with us.



My limit is the transmission, once I pull over about 15 psi in OD, the heat starts to build... . If it wasn't for my transmission I believe I could run wide open and keep water and EGT at acceptable levels.



I think your engine temp will be the limiting factor though, I don't really wish for more power than I can get at 23 psi (my egt builds from there) at least not for climbing long hills...



I can push it as hard as I want in 3rd gear, higher rpm means lower boost and transmission temps for me.



Hopefully you found something usefull in my ramblings... .

 

[cerberusiam]

My limit is the transmission, once I pull over about 15 psi in OD, the heat starts to build... . If it wasn't for my transmission I believe I could run wide open and keep water and EGT at acceptable levels.

Think lockup, that will solve the trans and engine heat problem. Unfortunately you will have to toss the H1C cuz the EGT's will get out of hand.



Better air at lower pressures is what is needed. Can't do that without a +60 mm compressor and a good extend tip turbine wheel.

 

[Flexiheep]

Think lockup, that will solve the trans and engine heat problem. Unfortunately you will have to toss the H1C cuz the EGT's will get out of hand.



Better air at lower pressures is what is needed. Can't do that without a +60 mm compressor and a good extend tip turbine wheel.

No lockup for me, I have had it with juice trannies, going manual if this one dies (the stock transmission made it to 250K miles, I hope to get that out of the current one. ), or I get another truck... ... . I do want to upgrade the turbo, but at least right now it isn't my limiting factor.

 

[cerberusiam]

No lockup for me, I have had it with juice trannies, going manual if this one dies (the stock transmission made it to 250K miles, I hope to get that out of the current one. ), or I get another truck... ... . I do want to upgrade the turbo, but at least right now it isn't my limiting factor.

To each his own in the manual\auto debate.



I have driven and used both and once you get an auto with a good TC and lockup you realize the potential of the auto and how really, really bad a 518 is. :-laf

 

[NIsaacs]

You might back the fuel screw up to produce about 28 psi boost, then go to trucking. I would not be afraid of your setup, guts, feathers and all



Nick

 

[RSchwarzli]

Everyone agree or ???

 

[JLEONARD]

I would dial it back a bit more but you can do that on the fly as you see fit.

Personally I would just drive and see what you get, adjust if necessary.

Enjoy the trip!

 

[NIsaacs]

You sound experienced in trucks and towing, you will not have any normal issues. Just drive with your right foot. You said this trip would take place this fall. Where you live this probably means cool weather. Enjoy the trip, experiment as much as you can and report back with your findings/results.



Nick

 

[glhs]

Install an hx35 with a 14 or 16 housing, It may be all you need for your setup.

If you have the stock turbo and housing, this will be a definate improvement.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Yeah, its gonna get hot. The 45 mph up the 10 mile grades with engine temp sitting at 240 and the EGT's at 1300 make for a long nervous trip, and I have a better turbo than an HX35.

Since you have a manual it will help some but not enough at that weight. IMO, forget the HX-35 and find yourself a HE351CW or HE351VE and do the conversion now. Either will make much better air at 25-30 psi than any HX and have much more on the top end when you need it to run in direct.

You already have the 4" exhaust so the CW would be minimal effort to transplant, The VE takes more work but it has some great manners when you get it tuned right.

Can you give more info on these two turbos you speak of? More info would be good!

Install an hx35 with a 14 or 16 housing, It may be all you need for your setup.
If you have the stock turbo and housing, this will be a definate improvement.

Thinking further on this. Due to funds, I don't really think I can pull off a $1000+ turbo right now.

What if I mix the best of both worlds? What is I just take the 18 off the H1C and put that on the HX35? Would this do the job? I have that 1997 hx35 W 12cm in the garage I could use. How would that work with the wastegate? Would I need to be wastegated? I don't really want too much boost as the clutch could slip. But that should also give the air I need, no?

Is this a better idea than picking up a 16 housing for the hx35 and just running that?

Thoughts?

 

[cerberusiam]

The HE351 is the stock turbo off the 04. 5-04 Cummins engines. They have a 60mm compressor wheel with a 65 mm turbine wheel in roughly a 10cm^3 single scroll. The flow rates are very comparable witht he 12 cm^3 housings off the 2nd gens that are double volute. Quick spool, good air to about 45 psi and tough as nails. Remember these are on trucks rated at 325 HP and thats about 3/4 of their capacity. They are easily usable to 450 HP but thats the top end of the spectrum. Direct bolt on with some clocking of the housing.



The HE351VE is off the 6. 7 and is Holesets variable gate technology. It has a sliding collar on the turbine that opens and closes the WG for more or less drive pressure. It will run from about 3cm^3 which is the EB function to around 32cm^3 for no-load cruising. It uses a 4" outlet and the oil feed is compatible but the flange is a funcky T4 that needs to be added to the existing manifold. A little fab work and a controller for the variable collar is added so you can preset or use a boost vlave to open it up when boost goes high. Same compressor\turbine as the HE351 in a slightly different package. Works about the same, quick spool, good air up intot he mid to high 30's of boost.



A rough comparison is the 351 will make about as much air to control EGT's at 25-27 psi as an HX35 with a 58 compressor and 16 cm^3 housing will at 32-35 psi. Its about better air at lower pressures. The caveat is if you try to run the 351 at high fueling rates they bottle neck and drive pressure gets out of hand.



A stock HX35/12 is a good addition if you keep the fueling moderate and use your gears. It works pretty good but they suffer when you need to go much beyond 25 psi. Given the 10 hp\lb boost that puts it at a limit of around 250 HP and EGT's start to get out of control. I am towing heavy with my 1st gen sometimes at 320-350 HP and at altitude or big grades its too much fuel and not enogh air. In good conditions its fair around 1100 degrees but more air would bring that under 1000 and thats where I would want it.