Turn Signal Circuit Operation?

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I just had a new aluminum flatbed built and installed on my 2001. 5. Thinking they are way cool (literally) and extra bright and warranted for 10 years, I opted for all lights to be LED. I didn't anticipate a problem that I now have. The LED's draw such low current that the electronics on the truck are sensing that I don't have a full load (i. e. : a burned out lamp) and flash the turn signals at the high rate to indicate a burned out bulb. I contacted Grote, the manufacturer, and they indicated they were aware of the problem and it has only been showing up on late model light trucks, the 2000 and 2001 Rams at least but they have no solution at the present time. No problem on semi applications, etc. Guessing that the circuit needed a bigger load, I spent about $5 on parts and made a load that plugs into the trailer plug. Viola, problem solved. Now to the question. Anybody know how this circuit works? Is there an after market flasher that would cure the problem? I tried 3 automotive supply houses here plus the local dealer. Never heard of this problem and no answers. My $5 solution appears to work, but would like a more professional and permanent fix, other than something plugged into my trailer plug. Any thoughts and help appreciated.

Shelby

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2001 2500 QC LB 4WD, ETH, DEE, 3. 54 gears, Laramie SLT, Camper Special, Trailer Tow, Travel Convenience Group, Power Driver Seat, Alarm System, Remote Keyless Entry, Fog Lamps, Cab Clearance Lamps, HD Transfer Case, Bright White with a Gray Interior. Took delivery on 10-06-00. Coming soon: E-Brake and a custom aluminum work body / flat bed.

 

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Shelby,
Go to any good parts store specializes
in truck parts & get Tung Sol flasher,part #
652/5X. It's about 1 1/2" sq. It will flash
even if you have no lites working cause it
does'nt work on resistence.
Rick in K. Falls

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99 3500 4x4 QC,5spd,3. 55 posi,turn over ball goose neck hitch,Putnam class V reciever hitch,Alcoa alum. wheels,275 hp inj. home built boost module,4 in. straight exhaust(built it in my shop)Pac brake,4 leaf overload springs,all options execpt leather & keyless entry,2000 Artic Fox 10 ft. camper,with slide out 2horse tongue pull trlr. ,30 ft. gooseneck 3 horse living quarter trlr. ,24 ft flat bed that I haul my 6200# modified alcohol burning Ford 4x4
pull truck on.

 

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NAPA has flasher units both 2 and 3 pole that contain a relay and electronics that make them independent of load current, as I understand it.

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1997 4x4 CC 5spd, CPL1553 pump, Horton fan, Sport headlamps, Optima RedTops, 98 shift levers and console, RS5000 shocks, red light on dash (vol. FF)... .

 

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Thanks guys. I will try NAPA again. There is 5 terminals on the 2001 flasher, have not found any five terminal flashers of any brand. On top of that I can't find anybody locally that has the Tung Sol brand, but a heavy truck supply house is researching it for me. If anybody knows a source for the Tung Sol flashers that would be a huge help. I tried searching the web, but so far I have not come up with a home page for Tung Sol. Maybe that is just the brand, and the company is named something else??

Thanks again.

Shelby

 

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S. S.

You may be out of luck trying to find something that fits other than the stock Mopar combination flasher. The service manual (model year 2000) describes the combination turn signal/hazard warning flasher as a SMART relay. The flasher has the footprint of an ISO type relay but the internal circuitry is much different. It also contains active electronic Integrated Circuitry elements.

In operation, the flasher is designed to handle factory-installed lighting current flows. If extra lighting-as in towed vehicle-is added, the flasher automatically tries to keep the flash rate the same. Nothing is mentioned about how the unit detects missing or blown bulbs to trigger the rapid flash rate.

You might be better off taking your trailer lighting fix and plumbing it neatly into the wiring of your custom bed.

Edit:

Actually the manual does describe how the circuitry detects non-operating bulbs-but I don't understand it!

[This message has been edited by Thomas (edited 11-07-2000). ]

 

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Thomas,

Unfortunately, I think you may be right. Any electronic geniuses out there please feel free to jump in here. Although my solution works, I have been wondering why. I thought all of the trailer circuits went through a relay, or is that just for the tail lights? I suppose I need to buy the 2001 service manual, however with my limited electronic background, I am not sure I would still know what to do. Grote, the manufacturer of my LED lights may come up with something after the first of the year. I hope so.

Can anyone tell if the flasher itself activates the rapid flash, or is that done in the dash electronics somewhere? If it is in the flasher, I suspect someone will eventually come up with an after market flasher. Enough rambling, keep the ideas coming, please.

Shelby

 

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S. S. ,

From what I read in my service manual, the circuitry WITHIN the combination flasher detects the no bulb/blown bulb situation and causes the rapid flashing.

 

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Just a wild thought (free too!) add 1 or 2 side marker w/turn. Maybe on the front fender and rear of the bed to add to the load or maybe a standard marker (wired to turn sig) on the headache rack. Then agn, you could wait for Grote to come up with the load (probably a resistor in the light socket to increase the current flow). They may retro the lights for free so this may be the least and best way to go.

By the way, were these as expensive as I see them (15 - 35$ range) and do they have the LEDs mounted in a bulb for replacement in standard applications? Web site?? might do a search and see for meself.

SOTSU!!
\\BF//

 

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Go to a truck that has not been modified and measure the current draw across the circuit. Then use an appropriatly sized resistor to make the loads the same. I would use a 1/2 watt resistor in the sockets or across the flasher.
Paul R. Haller

 

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Ben,

Yes they were fairly spendy, I believe the Stop Tail Turns were around $15 each, running (4) 4" rounds, so about $60. Mine are a sealed unit, 10 year warranty. Here is the web site for Grote, http://grote.com/new/new.htm

I got the "cheap" ones, the 10 diode pattern. They are definitely bright.

Paul,

I did not measure an existing truck, but have been told by several sources that a "normal" stop - turn bulb draws about 2 amps. The pair of LED lamps only draw 0. 48 amps. Therefore I need an artificial load of about 1. 5 amps. Using ohms law with 1. 5 amps and 13. 2 volts, I calculated around 8 ohms of resistance needed, and that I will need to dissipate about 20 watts of power. I went to Radio Shack and bought two 8 ohm, 20 watt resistors and wired once to each side via a pigtail that plugs into my trailer plug. It cures the problem, but is not the most eloquent solution, nor is it the prettiest.

Thanks for all of the tips guys. Waiting on that Grote replacement flasher to be designed and built.

 

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Go to www.godfathercustoms.com. They have replacement 3157 LEDs to fit right into the stock harness. The only problem is that your flasher will flash at a faster rate. So I'm currently in the market for a flasher that is not load dependent.

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'01 BLK QUAD-CAB, ETH, 6-SPEED, HX-40, DD BOOST MODULE, STAGE III INJECTORS, ATS MANIFOLD, 4" EXHAUST, BED LINER, CLARION PPD KICKER FOCAL STEREO

 

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is there anyway to wire the resistor inline on the wire going to the LED. I was just looking for a way to have the resistor "out of sight, out of mind. "

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'01 BLK QUAD-CAB, ETH, 6-SPEED, HX-40, DD BOOST MODULE, STAGE III INJECTORS, ATS MANIFOLD, 4" EXHAUST, BED LINER, CLARION PPD KICKER FOCAL STEREO

 

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Originally posted by BLKDEMON:
is there anyway to wire the resistor inline on the wire going to the LED. I was just looking for a way to have the resistor "out of sight, out of mind. "

You could install a burden resistor in parallel with the lighting circuit, if you series ( in line )the resisor you will dropping the voltage to the lamp.

With electronic switches, recycle and on and off delay solid state timers when a very low draw device as the load and their is not enough current to bias the ss devise we use a 5k ohm 5 watt burden resistor to create enough current to exceed the current threashhold of the ss switch.

yes led's are available with standard lamp bases. screw in and bayonet types in a variety of voltages: can be had in forward or reverse polarities, many colors and candelpowers, directional and diffused beams. single and multiple clusters, the more in a cluster the longer the life as more can fail before replacement is required

[This message has been edited by JNutter (edited 11-28-2000). ]

 

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Guys, thanks again for all the replies. I have had further correspondence direct with Grote, as well as a call with my bed builder. Grote is very aware of the problem and already has a replacement flasher in the design stage. The time frame I hear is January, but we will see. I would certainly expect something in the 1st QTR of 2001. If the new flasher is the cure, I will certainly post results and part number. I should be one of the first to know, as my bed builder is supposed to be keeping me in the loop.

Shelby

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2001 2500 QC LB 4WD, ETH, DEE, 3. 54 gears, Laramie SLT, Camper Special, Trailer Tow, Travel Convenience Group, Power Driver Seat, Alarm System, Remote Keyless Entry, Fog Lamps, Cab Clearance Lamps, HD Transfer Case, Bright White with a Gray Interior. Built 09-15-00, took delivery on 10-06-00, 1749 miles as of 11-25-00. Custom aluminum work body / flat bed.
Coming soon: E-Brake and gauges.