Urea Injection - Food for thought

[jelag]

I just read the following about Urea Injection... . its the last 3 lines that got my attention... . Thought I'd share...



The AdBlue is stored in a 4. 5-gal tank in the rear of the vehicle, and the refill spot is under the compact spare. Initially, the idea is that dealerships will refill the AdBlue tank during standard scheduled maintenance (a "service engine soon"-type light will appear 1500 miles before AdBlue runs out, and a tank should last 10,000 miles), but owners may be able to do it themselves in the future. A warning to procrastinators: Government mandates will not allow diesels that use urea injection to run without; when it's time to add more, don't ignore the light. Any diesel that uses this system, when the tank is empty, the vehicle will not restart. Period.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

JEEZE - what a SHAME my '02 doesn't have that nifty feature... :-laf:-laf

 

[Regcabguy]

If urea injection allows the manufacturers to back off on EGR and have a less restrictive DPF,it might work. If it's in addition to current controls... . :{

 

[SRadke]

Read all about it cause we'll be seeing a lot more of it...

 

[Jim W]

Urea Injection is the system of choice in Europe. In fact when you go to the gas station to fill-up with diesel you also add the required amount of Urea from the Urea pump if needed. I believe the trade name for some of Urea is "Have Blue".

I know of some of the US heavy equipment engine makers were looking at using urea for their engines in order to meet the 2010 emission rules. But step back because the US did not have a distribution system that would provide urea in time to meet the 2010 emission rules.

I would rather have urea injection then with the EGR system we have now. We would still have some type of DPF with the urea injection. If we used the technology from the European automotive industry, we might not have all of these issues we have now. Since they are much further along using diesel emission technology then the US.

Just my $0. 02

 

[brods]

I just read the following about Urea Injection... . its the last 3 lines that got my attention... . Thought I'd share...



The AdBlue is stored in a 4. 5-gal tank in the rear of the vehicle, and the refill spot is under the compact spare. Initially, the idea is that dealerships will refill the AdBlue tank during standard scheduled maintenance (a "service engine soon"-type light will appear 1500 miles before AdBlue runs out, and a tank should last 10,000 miles), but owners may be able to do it themselves in the future. A warning to procrastinators: Government mandates will not allow diesels that use urea injection to run without; when it's time to add more, don't ignore the light. Any diesel that uses this system, when the tank is empty, the vehicle will not restart. Period.

Comparing choking the engine with a complicated egr setup or maintaining a tank of liquid Urea depends on the mpg advantage of the Urea system, the additional cost per mile of the Urea, any difference in the purchase price of the truck and any long term maintenance differences. Did you see any cost estimates in that article?



There have been many good emission reducing solutions that were not allowed because the EPA knows the operators simply will not maintain the supplementary systems. Water injection for gasoline engines is one example. As much as none of us like it, it makes perfect sense that the EPA requires the operator to maintain the system. How else would they do that? If you note the specific wording, the truck will not restart. That implies that if you run out while driving you can continue to operate the engine and drive to your destination or preferably a refilling station.



Don't worry though, there will be black and after market super liquids and work arounds to bypass the systems anyway.

 

[mwilson]

This makes my '06 all the more valuable to me.



I will have to stock the Urea here to sell, have already gotten info from Cummins regarding packaging, etc.



It does seem that if we simply refined our Diesel better as is already being done in Europe a lot of expense and aggravation would cease to be. This crap coming out of the pumps in Maine smells just like Bunker C (#6 Oil).

 

[MickeyMiller]

Hmmm... makes my reprogramed '03 with nothing 'all the more valuable' to me!



Mwilson, come out to California, we have 'botique ULSD' that has to meet strict aromatic standards, I think it actually smells good! That is the SINGLE positive comment I have ever made about the California over regulation of air quality...

 

[rscurtis]

One thought that occurred to me is if you started with a clean engine like my '03 HO, equipped it with a DPF for control of PM (which it has very little to start with), and then used Urea for NOX control, is where it would end up in the grand scheme of emission controls, while still maintaining its excellent driveability and fuel economy. It's already 90% clean, and if it ended up being 95% clean as opposed to the 98% of a 2007+, I don't think that small difference would be noticeable to anyone's day-to-day existence, but the fuel economy benefit sure would be.

 

[domehead]

MB has been using the stuff in their SUV starting in 09 and I think the cars started in 08 and they have the same problem no blue no start. If some would look around at the MB fourms it could be place to start to find some answers about MPg and other issues.

 

[domehead]

below is taken from one of the MB fourms.



AdBlue sources for DIY refills



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



More information than you really wanted to know... but should know!



Mercedes Benz Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) additive Requirement:

-ISO 22241



Other key specifications for other AdBlue are:

-AUS 32

-DIN 70070





Quote:

AdBlue® is a 32,5% solution of high-purity urea, used in Euro 4 and 5 vehicles' additional tanks. That permit to reduce emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx) from the exhaust of diesel vehicles, by SCR technology (selective catalytic reduction); about the 85% of thes emissions are converted by catalytic reaction into benign nitrogen gas and water, not dangerous for nature.



In the beginning AdBlue® (that can be also called "AUS32", Aqueous Urea Solution 32. 5%) must respect some standards: DIN 70070 (quality standard) and DIN 70071 (analytical standard). DIN means "Deutsches Institut fur Normung".



-ISO 22241-1 Quality requirements, specifies the quality characteristics of AdBlue needed to operate the SCR system on your vehicle. It is a final, published International Standard.



-ISO 22241-2 Test methods, specifies test methods required for determination of the quality characteristics of AdBlue. It is also a published International Standard.



-ISO/DIS 22241-3 Handling, transportation and storing, describes how to deal with AdBlue in practice and in its content is much like the CEFIC Quality Assurance Guidance Document.



-ISO/DIS 22241-4 ISO/DIS 22241-4 Refilling interface, describes elements pertaining to refilling components.



Last two ISO are a 'Draft Industrial Standard', and will be published soon.



To assure a good working of AdBlue® storage and dispensing systems and of vehicles with SCR system, it's very important to use only AdBlue® products that match with ISO standards



At the moment the used standard for AdBlue® is ISO 22241 2008/9.





Per Mercedes maintenance Manual Page: 13 "Emissions System Maintenance":



Quote:

Only use AdBlue® complying with

ISO 22241. Do not add special additives to

AdBlue® and do not dilute AdBlue® with water.

Otherwise, the BlueTEC exhaust gas aftertreatment

system could be damaged.



For the DIY servicing I have found a wide range of prices for the AdBlue or "Urea" additive. From my local dealer the price for 2 liters is $11. 00 USD. They will not sell it in bulk ie 5 gallons at a time but only with a full service and even then are unable to break it down on a per liter basis for just the AdBlue additive.



DISCLAIMER: Improper filling and contamination of the AdBlue system WILL result in failure and EXPENSIVE damage to the emissions systems! Any attempt to repair, refill or tend to the system MUST be done with every reasonable measure to insure not external contaminant enters the AdBlue system! NEVER mix anything with the AdBlue additive! The system detects actual NOx output, therefore additive with ONLY the appropriate ISO 22241 Approval can be used to insure proper dosing of the catalysts. Diluting the additive WILL result in damage to the catalysts and a very expensive repair bill.



With that said, here is a listing of suppliers of the AdBlue additive:







Quote:

http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genu...ea_934647.html



IMPEX SKU # 934647

GENUINE PART

"Diesel Exhaust Fluid"

Compliance Standards:

-ISO 22241

-AUS 32

-DIN 70070

-ALDEHYDE FREE



Composition: UREA

OEM part number VW/Audi: GUS-052-910-A3 / GUS052910A3 )

OEM Mercedes Equivalant part Number: 004-989-04-20-12

List Price: $14. 85 :: Impex Price: $12. 83

Verfied to be a quantity of: 9. 46L / 2. 5 US GAL



NOTE: This can be purchased at any local VW/AUDI dealer

 

[WhiteSheep]

Can't I just pee in the tank since urea is just refined urine?

 

[mwilson]

That is wonderful idea. With an ample supply of Budweiser you could go positively forever.

I will start production Friday night. :-laf:-laf

 

[hwebster]

Well... I'm thinking my '08 is where I am staying until this is sorted out. Current DPF/EGR is a JOKE. Burn more fuel, less efficiently, to clean the filters... doesn't make sense.