V10 will out pull a Cummins

[red1ton]

I just found this post in the iRV2.com web site.

Quote: The primary difference between the V-10 and Cummins diesel is that, because of the power characteristics (see above), the V-10 wants to be revved to make power and torque. On level ground, we tow in 3rd gear (OD locked out) at 60 MPH which gives us around 2400 RPM. Steep hills require 2nd gear @ 3500 RPM to hold 60 MPH. That's with a 3. 54 rear axle - the 4. 10 you're considering will make the V-10 "happier" in a towing mode by providing additional torque multiplicationto the rear wheels and also keeping the revs closer to the torque and BHP peaks.
In a nutshell, I tell the Cummins guys "I'll pass you going up the hill, but you'll probably pass me atthe top where I'm refueling!"

Anyone have a different view?
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2001, 3500, 2X4, QC, SLT, Auto, 3. 54 gears, camper and tow packages. Lance model 1130 camper. Rancho 9000 5 Speed shocks. BD Brake, autoloc, pressureloc. Hadley air horns. OEM bugshield w/eyebrows and dash cover. Member San Jose Ram Runners.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

maybe a stock cummins , but not a bombed unit ... i let a V10 owner drive my truck a couple weeks ago , i bet the smile is still on his face ... and how about the V10 i pased while playin' back in the fall , the look on his face was priceless as i drove AROUND him at 105 mph . i hate to infight with fellow dodge owners , but bring it on my friend .

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Sure, if the Cummins is also running on unleaded gasoline #ad

To be fair, in a stock-to-stock comparison at sea level, the V10 might make more hp than the Cummins--it used to be the case but I think the playing field is more level now. If the V10 is geared so it is at a higher hp level=higher rpm, yes it could pull a bit better. However, once you bomb that Cummins, the V10 won't keep up at all. Furthermore, in the mountains/high altitude, the V10 loses around 3-3. 5% of its power per 1000 ft elevation while the Cummins loses only around 0. 5% per 1000, according to DC. Right after the 'ten came out, Dodge marketing wanted to run both in the Rockies and show them towing in ads. The 'ten couldn't kep up so they shelved the project.

 

[Mad Max]

I'm w/ Joe...

about the only thing a 10 does better than me is get out of the whole empty... and that's because every 10 I've seen is an auto, meanwhile, I'm loosing boost every time I shift the 'ol DEE.

On a rolling start... GOOOD LUCK! Best be pack'n a Paxton Blower and a TransferFlo Tank in that 10. (maybe some spare exhaust manifolds too from what I hear)

Max

 

[JPM]

Please do not talk mods when comparing engines. All the good things that the diesels do will be compromised ,you know long live, fuel mileage,dependablity,etc. I was thinking about modifying my 1991 Cummins but the cost of puking trany's and extra fuel let alone the mods themselves led me to forget it.

 

[Mad Max]

Mine's Stock...

=)

And I drive passed a lot of filling stations... AND V10's.

Max

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I disagree. I feel it is entirely appropriate to talk about modifications because that has been an integral part of hot rodding and towing for generations. The V10 is very expensive to modify and it loses a lot of durability. One guy, from Phoenix, on the Ramtruck list, added a $1000 throttle body, $2000 in Borla headers and cat-back exhaust, and the Mopar Perf. computer. He made something like 250-270 hp at the wheels on the Dynojet. A tired old 12 valve Cummins can do that with just a $300 torque plate and boost control. V10s have had problems with collapsed pistons, etc. The Cummins retains excellent durability and fuel mileage even when it is taken to quite "earnest" power levels. The rest of the drivetrain does quite well once a few weak points are addressed (manual clutch or automatic trans mostly). In fact the Cummins can become quite competitive with the V10 or beat it at sea level without hammering the drivetrain stuff. Once altitude comes into play, the V10 wheezes and slides back.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Donnelly (edited 01-27-2001). ]

 

[Frank J. Lloyd]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly:
I disagree. I feel it is entirely appropriate to talk about modifications because that has been an integral part of hot rodding and towing for generations. The V10 is very expensive to modify and it loses a lot of durability. One guy, from Phoenix, on the Ramtruck list, added a $1000 throttle body, $2000 in Borla headers and cat-back exhaust, and the Mopar Perf. computer. He made something like 250-270 hp at the wheels on the Dynojet. A tired old 12 valve Cummins can do that with just a $300 torque plate and boost control. V10s have had problems with collapsed pistons, etc. The Cummins retains excellent durability and fuel mileage even when it is taken to quite "earnest" power levels. The rest of the drivetrain does quite well once a few weak points are addressed (manual clutch or automatic trans mostly). In fact the Cummins can become quite competitive with the V10 or beat it at sea level without hammering the drivetrain stuff. Once altitude comes into play, the V10 wheezes and slides back.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Donnelly (edited 01-27-2001). ]

I had both the V10 and the Cummins up until two weeks ago. I loaded both regularly, me in one friend in another at work. The Cummins would out pull the V10 in nearly all situations up until about 75-80mph. The V10 just revs higher. V10 is faster empty but can't pull near the same.



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2001 3500 4x4 H. O. 6 speed 4. 10, SLT, Cab and Chassis, 163" wheelbase western hauler stake bed 3" straight pipe, silencer ring AWOL, boost pyro gauge, K&N, Geno's one touch oil valve, Cobra 29 bombed, Halogen backup lights, cargo bed loading area flood lights, underbed boxes, pacbrake
ready to bomb
Big Red is ready to roll!

 

[Mopar-muscle]

james p , not sure about the longevity issue , but my fuel milege increased 1. 5 to 2 mpg with the addition of 275 injectors , adding the VA i lose . 5 mpg , at least thats between the last 2 tanks 16. 59 vs 16. 18 , not impressive , but the 24v does not get the mileage of a 12v , i have to live with that , but its alot more fun bombed than stock .

floyd , you are probably correct , out of the hole the v10 revs faster , maybe i'll get a chance to race one this year and see how i fare , granted i'm making 450 - 500 hp . .

 

[Bad340fish]

You guys won't lose boost when you shift if you learn how. Stay in the smoke pedal hammer the clutch down shift it quick(yes these trannys do it pretty good) and bam your in the next gear at full boost. Sure it lays a little rubber down but it sure is fun. My Stocker 99 will lay 4th gear rubber doing this. As will my buddies Bombed 12V 3500. You will be shocked at how much it
pulls when you shift without losing boost.

BTW i wouldn't recomend this when towing #ad
lol
Clark

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Clark
1999 2500 QC SB 5spd Flowmaster 3 chamber
1968 Barracuda Formula S Viper Blue 11. 98@112

NHRA member for life

 

[Archive]

I have read all the replys so thought I would throw in my 2cents worth. I had a 96 V10 3500 4wd with 3. 54 gears and pulled a 32'King of the Road 5th whl. and I bought a 2001 H/O 3500 6spd 3. 54 geared 4wd in June of 2000 and from my experience pulling the same trailer over the same terrain (flat land of the midwest and some hills in southern Missouri and Arkansas) both trucks factory stock. The V-10 in the hills would definitly out pull the cummins. With the gasser I could top a hill still running 60 mph and yes the truck had down shifted once or maybe twice and turning close to 4000 rpm but it would pull the grade. To me the bad side of all this was while pulling the truck got 5 to 5. 5 mpg and 10 empty. I had heard stories of higher mpg on the gassers but my truck never saw them.
Also the lifespan of the V-10 is a heck of alot less.
Ok, now to my cummins, pulling the same trailer same roads it pulls fine UNTIL I get to the hills I have to drop 2 gears and top the hill at 40-45 mph but only 2800 rpm and 10-12mpg pulling and 15-16 mpg empty and the cummins to me is built to live a long time. .
I feel like stock my truck has torgue enought to move a house but lacks the horse power to to keep it moving at higher speeds.
I was dissappointed the first time I pulled with my new truck and will start bombing to incraese power(this is a trailer pulling truck not race)but I hope only mildly... ... I would like to be able to keep the stock clutch in it,
once bitten... ... ..... well I think you guys all know what thats like.
I also would like to say there are alot of good people on this list and people who are willing to help others in time of need and thats what it should be all about.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

What if that V10 is in a Viper? #ad


HEHEH

 

[A. Brown]

dosen't the v10 get like really bad fuel mileage??

 

[WAYNE]

Hey Evan, I got a V-6 in a Grand National for that Viper.

 

[drawson]

There is a 96 standard cab 2wd locally here that have a vortec super charger on it and has had to overhaul the engine because of piston problems. It has open(no cat) exhaust, a chip, and a high stall converter. I guess it runs 14 flat quart mile times. It is down at all the test and tune friday night drags. From what I hear it has a coolant heating problem.

This summer I'm going to find out how BAD it really is. #ad
#ad
#ad
At least it's a dodge!!!!

 

[Okie-Go]

I would rather walk and carry the steering wheel of my diesel than ride in the cab of a gasser, even the v-10. (final answer)

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2001 quadcab slt 2500 HO 6spd. LWB,2wd,dk garnett red, trailer tow package,camper special, anti spin 3. 54 axle, speed liner,oversized stainless steel chicken slide,66 gallon in bed aux. tank,K&N air filter,Reese 20k hitch, Terry 2000 EX 30ft. double slide 5er, 2000 20ft gooseneck for haulin jeep, firewood and huntin stuff. 5X12 tagalong for haulin the 4 wheeler. Okie Newton

 

[HC]

Anyone have a different view?
#ad

Troublemaker! Admit it, you just got bored and wanted to stir something up, didn't you? #ad

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Dee, feed your Ram a few more parts #ad
and then tell the Vtenner it is stock. He probably won't be able to tell why you ran a second quicker than he did #ad
with a weak, pathetic, small block, inline six oil burner #ad

 

[jmeehan]

I saw a cartoon in an Easy Rider once. It was some crotch rocket wantin' to race a Harley. The Harley rider said "Sure, same bikes in ten years". Tell the V-tenners to come back when the Cummins is at 200K miles. (I just hope the rest of the truck lasts as long)

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ex Ford tech, now driving '01. 5 2500 4X4 QC LB ETH/DEE SLT 3. 54, Patriot Blue

 

[Mopar-muscle]

Originally posted by Evan A. Beck:
What if that V10 is in a Viper? #ad

HEHEH

Evan , the V10 in the viper is a completely different animal than that in the pickups , the viper block is aluminium and there aren't very many parts that swap between the 2 . want to make a screamer V10 pickup , swap in a viper motor , but you wouldn't be able to tow with it .

Andy the V10 in the viper actually gets decent mileage for something making 450 hp , it is actually rated at 20mpg hiway ...



[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 01-29-2001). ]