valair,centerforce,sbc,luk,spec,etc

[CATCRACKER]

you all know i have been on this board along time and i need some help. i am down to making a decision on what clutch to buy. keep in mind



1. we are talking single disk full fe and ofe type clutches

2. i dont like paying more just for the sake of paying more unless i know that the product is better in some way.

4. please be subjective. leave emotion off the keyboard. I have the feeling that some of the newcomers in feramic clutch making are producing the same product ,when it comes to single disk feramic clutches, such as sbc's fe and ofe but are selling them for half as much. I may be wrong but i am forced to find the d/f when its my $400 on the line.





so i ask what makes one clutch better than the others? isnt one model of full feramic clutch the same as anothers full feramic clutch? What makes southbends clutch so much higher in price than the others (2X). I know sbc customers service is hard to beat but i am talking clutch for clutch dollar for dollar. Why should or shouldnt I. I am not endorsing anyone just asking a question that we single clutch buyers find ourselves asking as of late. Clutch prices are dropping that is telling me s/m... .competition... . see the capitalist society works in favor for the diesel community... anyway cant wait to hear your opinions ie devoted fass users swapping to walbros this is s/m that I saw coming long before GDP business opened and tried to talking genos garage into producing... . anyway are we seeing the same thing in single disk clutches a turning of the tide????same quality better price?? this is not a baited question. If i had the money i would just buy a southbend and i may anyway depending on your responses.

 

[DMcPherson]

Im not sure about the others but, I used to sell centerforce, after seeing a large amount of them break (in the same place) and have no warranty, I decided to stop. I have used spec in cars, and have not had good luck with them. I would definately not use either of those personally.

 

[CATCRACKER]

i will back that up i have heard the same about centerforce. I have also seen how loud and choppy ceramic can be. I also think ceramic shorten the life of drive train parts b/c of that. I dont like ceramic clutches. Also, just a reminder I am talking about fe and ofe type clutches.

 

[wildmanben]

if you dont like ceramic, feramic will be worse...

 

[AFarmer]

South Bend Clutch has been around for quite some time. I will say this, you have any problems - Peter is on the other end of that phone line to help you out. It's a great company to deal with on product and customer service.

 

[CATCRACKER]

no doubt peter is the man! and from what i have seen in posts from other companies class may be of some question 2500ftlb claim for example from single disk makes me have my doubts. but the question i am trying to find an answer to are the new fe/ofe clutches that new out and are half the price are they comparable to sbc's.

 

[South Bend Clutch]

no doubt peter is the man! and from what i have seen in posts from other companies class may be of some question 2500ftlb claim for example from single disk makes me have my doubts. but the question i am trying to find an answer to are the new fe/ofe clutches that new out and are half the price are they comparable to sbc's.

I think I can answer this. You may believe me or not, it is your choice. IT IS NOT APPLES TO APPLES. The world market has put a pinch on the old USA. I am approached weakly by the foreign markets, especially China, to purchase their products at a much reduced price. Knowing that the quality is cheaper, we have to make the call as a supplier. We, South bend Clutch, introduced the OFE & FE to the market. Before us it was not in existence. It took us a lot of R&D to make it work. We did not simply put something on the market that would hold the power but we took all of the variables into consideration. Longevity, smoothness of engagement, quality, endurance, support. Believe me, we have taken our lumps with the power that has come upon us. It is simple to mock a working product when it has been prooven and beat the price. But, here is the nitch... no distribution. I am supporting many many companies. If any of the companies that are mocking our product were to get any type of distribution they would be forced to raise their prices. The companies that you speek of are only selling retail. When it comes to getting it installed... ... ... ... Take your own steak into Ponderosa and see how well they cook it for you.



Now, I can buy the Chinese feramic at a much cheaper price and cut out all distribution and low ball my price but who will suffer in the end, "US"!!! When it comes to our OFE, the other companies are not giving you the same Feramic as well as the same Performance organic. They are simple buying the cheep feramic and putting it with the stock organic material that is supplied with the OEM disc. They will make claims that their pressure plates are certain clamp loads and that is simply not true. We developed the higher plate loaded pressure plates and had to spend close to ½ million dollars to do so. These companies have taken our figures, hard work and torque ratings and said that their clutches will do the same without real world fact. Just because they name it the same and it looks close to the same does not mean it is the same. I support North America, the companies that produce and develop the power for your trucks, the distribution of our products that keep the small business men in business and the installers that back the workmanship of their labor. I am sure a look alike of our clutch will soon be available in Wallmart, if you give it enough time I am sure you will be able to buy it there at 1/3 the cost.





Call any of these companies and see if they have a clutch available for the 2006 G56 transmission. I bet they will not know what G56 stands for. We have 10 clutch options available from single disc solid flywheel replacements to dual discs. I am not sitting back waiting to see what someone else does!!





Peter

 

[thekidfan]

The simple answer is if the other clutchs are half the price, thats great you have two chances to "hopefully" get a unproven clutch to work! There are people out there that are running much more power then they should on a given clutch (I know of one single disc Luk that has seen well over 600 and it holds) and they may be happy, but the majority of high performance trucks run one of Peters'.

Look at it like how can any of these other companies do any R&D, even if a high horsepower guy has one when it goes bad they throw it away and buy another, when Peter gets one back he finds out why it went bad and figures a way to make it better!

When/if my DD gives up I'll sell it back to Peter so he can sell one exactly like mine to everyone that wants a DD that can be daily driven, shifted as fast as stock, require no more pedal pressure then stock and still hold up to 692. 5 rwhp cause I've had at least 3 people comment on how great mine is! And it's almost 3 years old now. Good luck to ya

 

[AFarmer]

I'd say that the we would all agree that you get what you pay for... ...

 

[CATCRACKER]

well thanks for the replies... i make my living dealing with american union labor and i understand the competition from the world market and i like to see myself as supporting american labor. With that said I am going to make a few calls and see where some of these clutches are made. Peter your commitment to making quality products is a fact and i appreciate you taking time to respond to this post. I know alot of people are weighing the same options as I am. I hope everyone understands my delimma which is i can have one of the other FE clutches installed for what it would cost for just for a sbc clutch so I am going to look long and hard at some of the others. However, I think this issue needs some fleshing out and that is exactly what i am going to do. With what has been said so far this alone may keep alot of people from going "chinese". I welcome any other ideas opinions etc. I will do some calling around and see what else I can find out. later Dave

 

[The Adjuster]

I have to agree with the statement 'you get what you pay for' ... but ... that does not always mean the most expensive is best. I currently run a SB Con OFE in my 2500 and it has been a great clutch, no problems and hopefully will last a long time, I have however been able to make this clutch slip on a few occasions which really shocked me as I am no where near the 450HP range it is advertised at.

On my previous truck, a 2000 3500 that I used for hotshotting all over the country I had the stock clutch more or less fall apart at 80K miles on back road in WV ... so to get me up and running I had a LUK Gold put in ($450 installed) and all was fine for aroung 15K miles then it started making funky noises and found out the pilot bearing was toast as too was the disk center ... well trying to get warranty was hopeless, LUk pointed the finger at the garage that installed it and the garage pointed the finger at Luk saying the disk center was faulty ... needless to say it never got resolved.
We have a local company here just out of Weatherford, Tx that makes clutches, Valair, so I called them up to see what they offered for my 1 ton and sure enough they had several different ones to choose from and asked what I needed it for ... told them my tale of woe and they recommended a clutch for me ... more expensive than the Luk but cheaper than SB and with a 12/month 100K mile warranty ... that clutch was still in the truck when I sold it with 160K miles on it ... never had it slip even with 15,000 lbs behind the truck and the 1 ton had more power than I have now.

When my 2500 was due for a clutch I thought I would try a SB given all the hype about them and I must admit I am happy with it, but with less power in my 2500 than in my 1 ton and no load and being able to make it slip once in a while I was somewhat dissappointed.

For my next clutch I will be going back to a Valair clutch, $600 at Valair versus $1200 for the SB is a big difference and honestly feel of the Valair clutch in my 1 ton was just as nice as the SB I have now ... plus I can use that extra $600 for more goodies #ad


Just my $0. 02 worth (non tax deductable)

Kevin

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

While the miles I have on my LUK Cerametallic won't qualify me as a high-mileage user, most of the 25,000+ miles on mine have been in towing our RV - and lots of west coast mountains in that mix.



The Cerametallic is a positive clutch, engages with noticeably reduced slippage or smoothness as the stocker it replaced - and has NEVER displayed the slightest tendency to slip under the highest power my mods can produce.



I too couldn't quite justify the price difference between the LUK and other highly touted competitors - and I can't brag about "Great company service" from Carolina Clutch for one simple reason - I've not had the SLIGHTEST problems or issues with mine!



Unlike others, I put lots more value on lack of NEED for customer service, than those who DO have relatively frequent failures, and simply get a "free" replacement of the same quality - sorta like the Ford guys bragging about the "great customer service" from Ford, as they are on their 3rd truck buy-back...



Don't get me wrong - I value a company that backs up their products as much as the next guy - but I'm also aware and sensitive to those who seem to too often NEED to be sending out "free" replacements - not too hard a thing to do, if your product is selling for nearly double the cost of the competition...



Some criticise the harsher, more positive clutches because of the tendency for them to apply greater wear on the flywheel, requiring it to be resurfaced when/if a replacement is needed - but as far as I am aware, ALL heavy duty aftermarket clutch suppliers, such as SBC, will do the same - and will ALSO require flywheel resurfacing as a condition of warranty!



SO, is my LUK "better" than the competition? I honestly can't say, since it continues to work well and is trouble free, and I have nothing - or any need - to compare it against.



And honestly, that's the way I prefer it!

 

[The Adjuster]

Gary -

I agree ... as long as it works for you thats is all the counts ... my lack of luck with the LUK (accuse the pun ... couldn't help myself) and lack of a resolutuion when I had a problem means I will never buy another, it does make a difference if ever you need the service. In my case whether it was an installation problem or a manufacutrer problem did not matter to me, I had paid for a product and a service and neither party was willing to step up and address the issue.

On the other hand companies such as SB and Valair who know their product and have a genuine interest in knowing how/why it failed so they can prevent further issues and also help the customer in need is a nice reassurance when parting with your hard earned cash.

CATCRACKER - (I want to ask how you come up with this nick ... but am afraid to ask . . LOL)

Out of curiosity I just called Valair and they told me they buy most of their materials from the same place South Bend get theirs from, the only difference being Valair builds their clutches themselves here in Texas, whereas South Bend has another company build their clutches exclusively for SB. So ... basically a Valair Clutch is NOT a South Bend clutch but they are built with mostly the same materials.
If South Bend has a middleman whereas Valair doesn't ... maybe this is why the price of SB clutch is higher than Valair ... anyhow both these are built in the USA as for the other brands I have no idea.

Kevin

PS: Valair also said they have a new 3800# plate available with their perfomance clutches now as an option to the 3200# ... I am sure SB has similar plate options but doubt you would get that from other chain brand manufacturers.

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Gary





Out of curiosity I just called Valair and they told me they buy most of their materials from the same place South Bend get theirs from, the only difference being Valair builds their clutches themselves here in Texas whereas South Bend has another company build their clutches exclusively for SB, so basically Valair is saying their clutches are NOT SB clutches but their clutches are built with mostly the same materials. If South Bend has a middleman whereas Valair doesn't ... maybe this is why the price of SB clutch is higher than Valair ... but both these are built in the USA as for the other brands I have no idea.



Kevin



PS: Valair also said they have a new 3800# plate available with their perfomance clutches now as an option to the 3200# ... I am sure SB has similar plate options but doubt you would get that from other chain brand manufacturers.

You have got to be kidding. We sorce our clutch building out and they build their own!!!!!!!!! What a bunch of BS. They have a 3800 lb 12" pressure plate!!!!! More BS. I am sure that there are hundreds of people that belong to this forum that has been to our place of business that will confirm the contrary. I believe they told you this hog wash as they told me the same thing. It took everything I had to bite my tongue as he rambled on. I felt if this guy was willing to lie so freely he will bury himself in do time.



Peter

 

[J.R. Adkins]

the only difference being Valair builds their clutches themselves here in Texas, whereas South Bend has another company build their clutches exclusively for SB. So ... basically a Valair Clutch is NOT a South Bend clutch but they are built with mostly the same materials.

If South Bend has a middleman whereas Valair doesn't ... maybe this is why the price of SB clutch is higher than Valair ... anyhow both these are built in the USA as for the other brands I have no idea.



Kevin

Facts are facts Kevin but I have been to SBC numerous times and have seen them build all of their Dodge clutches in house. I have also been part of the SBC R&D team helping bring the "Iron Giant" double disk to market with some real world testing and abusing of their line of clutches.



SBC has the BEST customer service bar none. As A dealer I value that and so do my customers!





J. R.

 

[DHRA]

Out of curiosity I just called Valair and they told me they buy most of their materials from the same place South Bend get theirs from, the only difference being Valair builds their clutches themselves here in Texas, whereas South Bend has another company build their clutches exclusively for SB. So ... basically a Valair Clutch is NOT a South Bend clutch but they are built with mostly the same materials.

If South Bend has a middleman whereas Valair doesn't ... maybe this is why the price of SB clutch is higher than Valair ... anyhow both these are built in the USA as for the other brands I have no idea.

I know this is not my fight, but I do want to say that I have been to SBC personally and recently and have seen them building the clutches in house. So CATCRACKER, no out of country labor going on in South Bend, IN!

 

[pwerwagn]

I have the LUK cerametallic in my truck, 13". I like it a lot. It has not been dissapointing at all.



If given the choice again, if I were in the same financial situation I was in (starving college student 2 weeks away from my wedding. . ), I would do it again.

But, If I could afford it I would buy SBC and none other just for this simple fact:

I support North America, the companies that produce and develop the power for your trucks, the distribution of our products that keep the small business men in business and the installers that back the workmanship of their labor.

I also dont agree with the fact that Valair is somewhat "copying" the SBC stuff and selling it at a discount (heck, copying anything, whether it be Fuel Plates, turbos, etc isnt kosher in my book). Guaranteed if they had to put the time and money into development, they wouldnt be selling them that cheap.

I dont know if LUK outsources to other companies overseas or not. The only reason I chose to support them is because I knew it wasnt a direct copy of a SBC, I could get it locally (Joe D) and it was the best I could afford at the time.



More and more people want to find the cheapest way out, and then complain when stuff doesnt perform to their expectation. And then wonder why we are in a somewhat poor economic period, when eveything they buy to save a buck is made in china!!!



Anyways, I could go on with this rant but I wont as I believe most people on this board probably know what Im talking about.

But I would like to thank Peter and his crew for their dedication to us, as well as our country.



--Jeff

 

[COWBOYDUALLY]

Yep

Anyways, I could go on with this rant but I wont as I believe most people on this board probably know what Im talking about.

But I would like to thank Peter and his crew for their dedication to us, as well as our country.





AMEN Jeff... ... ... ... ... ... ... Jeremy

 

[John Robinson]

Wow!!. What a good thread!! Now this is what a forum is for. Let me see if I can add some more Instie, I have had alot to do with the development of these clutches. myself & some of my customers have been the guinea pigs for 2 years now, while val-aire figures out what it takes to make these clutches hold. Sure, in the early days there were problems. Now, they have got them dialed in. I don't know & dont care where the componets come from to build these clutches, as long as they work, & do what they are claiming. Example: 2 days ago we installed a 13" ceramic with the 3400# plate load & it held without any slippage whatsoever. No break in either. the truck was a 05 short bed with a tst on 5-5, c-larry bddl, sp64, fass, . True thats not the hottest setup i`ve seen but it is quite a load. No I am not cheerleading. This is the truth. Isnt that what a forum is supposed to be about anyway, the truth!! :-{} I think sometimes that SEMI-PRO marketing gets in way. These are very good clutches at a very good price. Thats all I`m saying, I`m not saying they are any better or worse than anybody elses.

 

[RustyJC]

Isnt that what a forum is supposed to be about anyway, the truth!!

From what I've seen for the last week or so on several forums, the truth seems to be a monumental challenge to at least one vendor!



Rusty