Valve Body Upgrade?

[Cummins Thunder]

I am looking into upgrading my valve body to prepare my transmission for about ~450hp.

I have been told by a local Dodge Cummins mechanic that I am wasting my time by upgrading just the valve body, he tells me that the increased load on the stock torque converter will cause it to go out very quickly..... How do you guys feel about this? I would like to upgrade my VB and TC (as well as Billet shafts) but simply cannot afford to do so all at once



I read the article by Jim Fuller on page 54 of issue 46 of the TDR magazine.

Jim was in the ~650hp range before he ever went beyond a valve body... .



Should I listen to the local guy?? Or do as I want???



Thanks all, I hope I have made my question clear, as this is my first post on the TDR

 

[fox]

In my opinion, the converter is the week spot. Then the pressures-VB.

I have the upgrades with my own VB, similar to the trans go, but since I built a trans for a freind and we used a DTT vb, his is a better shifting trans. I won't modify anymore since I feel the purchase ofthe DTT vbis a good deal.

I had mine in and out too many time-the fluid and time spent justifies to deal.

Let me suggest that you find and drive several trucks with the trans modded in different ways.

 

[Cummins Thunder]

But, will I damage the TC with that kind of power and a DTT VB?



I have been looking at the DTT "hot-rod" VB, and perhaps a ATS TC down the road somwhere.

 

[fox]

No it won't hurt the converter.

Actually the converter is 'junk' when they put it in at the factory!!!

 

[Cummins Thunder]

Actually the converter is 'junk' when they put it in at the factory!!!

Tell me somthin else I already know! :-laf

But it is an expensive piece of "junk"



Thanks for the help Fox



CJ

 

[fox]

Your welcome.

I have in the past, gone thru the cheap junk aftermarket converter. Won't go there again. It was a TCI and I had poor customer service too.

I feel that If builders like Bill K. could make these converters this good/ great for less, they would to capture the market.

Just trying to help others spend their hard earned money once and correctly.

 

[Eric_B]

Which TCI converter ws it? I understand that they have a new Billet converter available now supposedly capable on 400-500 hp. But I do not know of anybody using one yet.

 

[fox]

They only had one option when I bought it. It had a standard steel cover.

The billet cover only adds weight. This weight will contribute to flex plate breakage.

 

[Cooker]

I read the article by Jim Fuller on page 54 of issue 46 of the TDR magazine.

Jim was in the ~650hp range before he ever went beyond a valve body... .

I haven't gotten around to reading issue 46 yet but this can't be right

 

[Eric_B]

Flexplate breakage

"The billet cover only adds weight. This weight will contribute to flex plate breakage. "





Is this the case with All billet converters??( DTT, ATS , etc. )

 

[cerberusiam]

No it won't hurt the converter.

Huh???



At that power level the engine will eat the converter for lunch then start in on the rest of the transmission.



The lockup clutch won't hold and it will start running clutch material thru the trans. The heat from the clutch slipping will warp the front cover and accelerate the demise of the clutch and start burning the fluid.



There are 2 schools of thought on converter construction and how they affect performance and longevity. They revolve around the steel covers and the billet covers and the effect they have on the rest of the drive train. One would hope that when installing a performance converter an upgraded flex plate is one of the first things considered, billet or steel cover. If not then a definite weak link exists. As far as the rest, it depends on what you want to do and how you want to drive the truck.



Your best bet is call the builder(s) of your choice and tell them what HP you are shooting for and what they would reccomend. All of them have seen about every problem that can exist and what happens when you try to cheapen things too much.



Like was mentioned before, don't skimp or you will be doing it again and fixing other problems.

 

[fox]

I won't get into an argument over this, but there are guys who have had ok perf from a stock converter CLUTCH with correct pressure. It is not the choice I would make.



Yes by all means follow the advice of the builder.



Low pressure and internal leaks causes quite a few failures.

No one knows what leaks you have unless you are good with a pressure gauge. Only GOOD trans guys use the gauge correctly.



I ran near 400 hp for a year then it started to slip after a very hard use.

The fluid stayed red till that day. When I got it apart the direct and forward clutches were junk. Who knows what the converter looked like inside!! But it still felt the same engaging. Just had slipping trying to increase speed.

 

[cerberusiam]

I won't get into an argument over this, but there are guys who have had ok perf from a stock converter CLUTCH with correct pressure.

No arguments here. Not my intent. You are absolutely correct. Given the pressures and trans are good and I would add driven corectly, adequate performance can seen from the stock converter.



On the flip side it is possible to trash a good trans in less than 2 weeks at less than the power levels suggested.



FWIW, a friend is at about 400 hp and the trans is already slipping in his 99 a month after the power upgrades. He is headed for BC for some R&R, for him and his truck. Lucky dog!!!



FWIW, the minimum trans upgrade I would do before any power enhancements is a VB AND TC then make sure you can find somebody that knows what a pressure gauge is for and can use it.



From this point on the slope only gets slippier! Good luck.

 

[fox]

One more comment to add.



The tighter converter is the single best mod done to the truck. But it must be done with other internal mods to survive.

I can use the low end power/ torque this Cummins makes.

Cannot do that with the stock converter at any pressure/ mod.

 

[tractorface]

"They only had one option when I bought it. It had a standard steel cover.

The billet cover only adds weight. This weight will contribute to flex plate breakage. "

01-02-2005 06:02 PM





No flame intended but... ... ...

Just what is the weight difference? Not sure I believe that statement at all.



I just UPS'd my OEM converter back to GB brothers and it only weighed 4 lbs. less than the shipping weight on the triple disc Billet converter I purchased. Now these were shipping weights so the real difference could be more. I am curious and would like to hear more on this. Oh Yeah. New Transmission is a 100 times better than the OEM unit. No Comparison