Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) VP-44 failures AFTER pusher install?

[Gary - K7GLD]

OK - it's been a while - and we undoubtedly have a few more pusher pump "converts" out there, so lets see how many, IF any of those who have installed a pusher pump in their trucks have since that time experienced a VP-44 failure?



Be sorta nice if at the same time we could get some indication of miles on truck BEFORE the pusher install - and whether the stock LP mighta been defective or replaced prior to pusher install... After all an added pusher CAN'T correct VP-44 damage that might have been present BEFORE it was installed...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

THIS is *ONE* case where NO responses is GOOD news!



BUT, I don't want the thread to get lost, either, so will keep bringing it back to the top occasionally...



I really think this is an important issue - WAY to many guys blow the VP-44 failures outta proportion, when *I* think it is a relatively SMALL issue that is pretty easily corrected, especially as compared to other more serious issues the 2nd generation trucks have had to deal with!



The "other" VP-44 thread now circulating MIGHT lead some readers to wrongly assume there is no easy cure or corrective action available for the LP/VP-44 problems - we need to point out that is NOT TRUE!



I know *I* would sure rather spend a couple of hours and $100 adding an "insurance pusher pump" that will likely eliminate all future VP-44 issues, than say, pull a 5-speed transmission to replace/repair a bad 5th gear... or pull the front end off a 12 valve to repair dowel pin damage.



It helps to keep weaknesses and their CURES in proper perspective!



So, keep those "no responses" NOT coming in!



No news is GOOD news!

 

[Shovelhead]

I believe that the biggest insurance policy is installing a Fuel Pressure guage before the lift pump goes T. U.

I wonder how many miles have been driven on dead pumps because the pressures were not monitored.

 

[lmills]

Originally posted by Shovelhead



I wonder how many miles have been driven on dead pumps because the pressures were not monitored.

I wondered that about mine. Being fairly new to the board, I had never checked mine until recently. (70,000miles) I figure, it has probably been on the low side for a while, I just never knew about it. It will get fixed just after the holidays.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I believe that the biggest insurance policy is installing a Fuel Pressure guage before the lift pump goes T. U.

I wonder how many miles have been driven on dead pumps because the pressures were not monitored.



Exactly my point in asking for a few details related to pusher install - SOME might install a pusher after previous damage due to low pressure to the VP-44, and then after the pusher install, STILL lose the VP-44 and think the pusher was a waste of time and money - the pusher sure can't "repair" damage that has already occured! The *FIRST* mod to my truck off the dealer lot was a pusher pump!

 

[Pit Bull]

Gary I understand what your trying to determine, but it brings up a bigger question? 98% of the owners of CTD's don't have FP gages and don't even know there is a lift pump problem which we feel can cause a VP44 failure. If the failures per 1000 CTD's was that large, Dodge would be addressing it with factory installed FP gages and instructions in the owners manual on how to monitor these pressures. It's all about the $$$. I am not saying that some members have not had problem because we know they have. But from what I have read we have no idea what really causes them or what corrects them and how they really affect the longevity of the VP44. Your problem on the pusher pump is that your sample group is going to be to small. Example if you have one failure 3 months from now what does that mean?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It's true that the sample group among owners HAVING installed pusher pumps is gonna be small overall - and even at that, those who have installed their pumps PRIOR to any LP failure or seriously reduced PSI to the VP-44 is even lower - but *IF* the addition of the pushers was NOT effective, there SHOULD be at least one or two failures out there...



SO far, there are apparently NONE!



My personal bet is that IF some means to provide constant positive pressure to the VP-44 is provided - pusher pump or otherwise, the failure rate of the VP-44 would not be significantly worse than other injector pumps used in the Cummins!



PLUS, I also feel that reduced lubricity in diesel fuel contributes significantly to increased wear and failures in ALL pump types, and there would be a measurable increase in wear rates and failures even in the highly revered injector pumps used in the 12 valve engines - but fortunately for them, they have been increasingly phased out and replaced by the 24 valve engines and VP-44's right as the lower lubricity fuels have become the standard - artificially making the failure rates of the VP-44's seem large by comparison, when combined with a problem NOT with the VP-44, but with the lift pumps...

 

[Pit Bull]

Gary I think you are on the right track, hope you get some feedback.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

*I* hope I *don't*



NO news is STILL good news - as far as THIS thread is concerned!

 

[JTroiano]

Now if we can get the Carter pumps to last a little longer than 8-10 months I would be happy. I put a brand new main pump in with a pusher in the rear and it lasted for about 4 months know the pusher is acting up and causing high fuel pressure at idle. (30psi) I know there is the new pump out there but I don't want to spend the money unless it is a sure thing.

Jon T

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I think it's really hard on the added pusher pumps to operate them at high head pressures constantly, and eventually, at least before spring and RV towing season, I plan to install about a 10 PSI fuel regulator/bypass right at my VP-44 to reduce total system pressure while still insuring adequate pressure where it's needed. That should reduce head pressure and workload on both the stock LP and pusher.



Meanwhile, I have fabricated a bypass valving arrangement around my own pusher install to drop head pressure by several PSI, while also allowing an even larger bypass route AROUND the added pusher in case it stops or fails for any reason - this allows the stock LP to continue to function reasonably normally, instead of starving it for fuel - it looks like this:



#ad






Tests show it works great!



As far as *I* am concerned, there are *two* basic reasons for premature VP-44 failures - the most prominent is failure to provide the VP-44 with adequate fuel pressure/flow under ALL circumstances, and a longer term, lesser issue, decreased fuel lubricity that accellerates pump wear. I address the first issue with the above added pump, and the second with Power Service additive specially formulated for increased lubricity - along with a dash of low-ash 2-stroke oil added to each tank of fuel. The added pusher pump is specific to the 24 valve engine - but the lubricity additives I did even with my old '91 12 valver...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HMMmmmmm - STILL no reported VP-44 failures after adding a pusher pump...



Anyone elso notice a trend here?

 

[Behr]

I have just a quick comment here... . and most of what I am reading about in this thread is LUBRICITY and FUEL PRESSURE.



If the fuel had sufficient lubrication ... . would this not help to extend the life of the lift pump?



If lubrication is a key factor... . I would look at it first as its the least inexpensive place to start.



We all talk about making sure we do REGULAR oil and filter changes on our engines. The fuel pump is no different... internaly there are highly precisioned components and they like the engine need protection



I guess my question for this thread is..... What is a good lubricity additive to add to the fuel... ?? I have heard some people adding ATF... . others adding 2 Cycle oil... ... and of course there is a long line up of additives at your auto-truck supply store to.



Which ones work ??



Feedback on this would be interesting.....



Ohhh by the way... . the best of "Seasons Greetings" to all that read TDR.....

 

[Pit Bull]

Not a good idea to use ATF. Might break something I use Rotella DFA buy it at Sams club cheap. Noticed they ran out so if they don't get more before I run out I will try some PS lube formula Whatever they call it. Several members use it and speak highly of it.

 

[pwr2tow]

Do not use ATF it has friction modifiers in it that can ruin the injection pump on an electronically controled engine. I'am not sure but I think you can still use it in the mechanically controled injector pumps.



The lubricity issue is for the injector pump not the lift pump.

Any diesel fuel additive that states it will increase lubricity should work fine. Just for your information I use Power Services additive that you can buy at Wal-Mart, truck stops, or just about anywhere.



Ron

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

20K on mine and only a "hiccup" pump problem (wire rot).

 

[rmrc]

Lubricity

The truck I recently bought ( see sig below ) has had Power Service used in it since new as per the original owner. I have kept the same treatment schedule ( a small amount with every fill up ). I also never let it get under 1/2 tank. It currently has 66,000 miles and still has the original lift pump. Hopefully, all fuel system components will last for quite a while. My next addition will be gauges that will definitely include fuel pressure!

 

[cdpsrjc]

PS

I too have used Power Service in every tank since new and still have strong original lift pump and VP44 @67K. Never seen any water drain from the filter either. FWIW.



Richard

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

actualy I forgot to mention . . The pusher has been running for 20K. I faithfully use howe's.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Well waddaya know - a full week and *19 posts* - and STILL no VP-44 failures reported after a pusher install - not even one installed AFTER a stock LP failure...



I'm feelin' better and better...