Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) vp-44 interchange

[JWine]

I saw this vp-44 on ebay a couple days ago. Guy says its a new pump from cummins #3964555 RX nicknamed "triple nickel". Says it will fit all 24v's. Anyone know anything about it. I need one for my 01. Thanks Jason

 

[Bob Wagner]

if its be labled as a special pump "aka triple nickel" buyer beware



do you have a link?

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

I think it sold for a little over $ 1200. Ad said something like it didn't break down or break like the stock ones that weren't "triple nickel". Sorry Bob, no link here.



It would be nice though to find out what years of these vp 44's fit each other, or are interchangeable. Like, does it matter if its a ETH or ETC HO or SO model of pump. Are all these 98. 5-02 pumps interchangeable? I wonder about what is all interchangeable with our trucks from year to year, but dont know where to find ALL this out at. EX. does an electric window motor from a 1999 fit a 02 model? Stuff like that.

 

[Tcolesanti]

As far as I know, HO pumps (028 spec) only work on HO trucks and the SO (027 spec) pumps only work on SO trucks. But I am sure the electric window motor will interchange. :-laf

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

With the relatively high failure rate of these pumps, you'd sorta think SOME reliable outfit with a strong backround in Bosch pumps, would get involved in offering reconditioned units with a focus on identifying and improving on the weak areas known to be most prone to early failure.



Unfortunately, the heavy reliance of these pumps upon their own attached electronic control board might mean a buyer would end up with a MECHANICALLY superior rebuilt pump - only to fry the circuit board a few miles down the road...



Let's face it, eventually EVERY VP-44 most likely WILL fail - I personally consider them in much the same light as an automatic transmission - after about 100,000 miles or so, yer living on borrowed time...

 

[DiTrani]

The truely sad thing is that I think the age of bullet-proof Cummins engines is over. Sure, everything inside the case may be build like Ft. Knox, but if they have to change fuel system technology every few years to keep up with the EPA, the technology will never mature and become reliable. Without fuel a Mighty Cummins is a Mighty Dead Cummins.



At lease this truck's Achilles Heal is something that can be changed relatively easily, if expensively.



For something like the VP44, I think I'd stick to buying from a trusted source, and not just by part number.

 

[HBarlow]

JWine:



I replaced my VP-44 a few weeks ago in an attempt to correct an off-idle stumble problem and then, $1500 later, to my dismay, proved the injection pump was not the cause of the stumble. It was the exhaust brake sticking closed!!



If you need a budget-priced VP-44 that may work for a long time, or may not, I'd exchange mine cheaply for your dead pump. I can guarantee my pump was working when removed from my truck and will be working when you install it. Of course I can't guarantee anything after that. All I need is a complete, unmolested VP-44 to return to Cummins to get my core deposit back.



My pump had 147,000 miles on it when removed mistakenly and it worked fine. I have used nothing but clean truck stop fuel, never had fuel tank contamination, changed fuel filters faithfully every 10k miles, and never ran it with a bad transfer/lift pump. On edit: It never had a box installed either. The only mod the truck has ever experienced is Bosch 275 hp injectors. At 68k miles running around town one afternoon my truck stumbled once like a gasser with a bad spark plug. I had just read symptoms on the TDR site and recognized the problem immediately. I drove straight to a dealer where the lift pump was replaced under warranty.



Harvey

 

[JWine]

Alright here is the deal on this "triple nickle" pump advertized on e-bay. I called a cummins dealer gave the part# and this is a rebuilt pump that fits alot of isb's. It lists for $988 dollars. The pump for my engine serial# is $1500. The parts man is not willing to say if this pump would work on my engine. So i called cumminsstuff.com and boughtthe right pump listed for my engine for $975 plus shipping. Thanks for the help.

 

[TractorNut]

I have a quick question about the numbers... I'm away from my truck. . but I have access to different VP44 pumps. . Deere uses this pump on a few engines. . Anyone know what the difference is between the pumps... and is the 27 and 28 listed on the pump somewhere???

Second question... what usually fails on the pumps. . also have a pump that has been disassembled... .

Thanks

Bryan

 

[GregFisher]

i too saw the ad on ebay, and emailed the person selling it to let him know it was a cummins application pump (0470 506 029) not a dodge application. He told me that since he was a former service manager at cummins he knew more than I. ( my shop has rebuilt over 1200 vp 44s to date) the cummins application has a completly different calibration than the dodges, as well as a cummins uses a different ecm than the dodge. as far as a triple nickle (555) hes full of s*** as to date the only major mods to these injection pumps hAve been the main housing on pumps that used the brass bushing also the psg (brain on top of pump) has been updated,

as far as pump numbers i will give a suppersession guide,

standard output (so)

0470506005 S/S BY

0470506011 S/S BY

0470506015 S/S BY

0470506027 CURRENT PRODUCTION



HIGH OUTPUT (HO)

0470506014 S/S BY

0470506021 S/S BY

0470506028 CURRENT PRODUCTION



CUMMINS MIDRANGE WHICH ARE APPLICATIONS USED BY OTHER THAN DODGE SUCH AS MOTORHOMES SCHOOL BUSES DELEIVERY TRUCKS ETC.

0470506003 S/S BY

0470506012 S/S BY

0470506029 CURRENT PRODUCTION CUMMINS # 3964555



P. S. ASK ANY GOOD CUMMINS MECHANIC WHAT A TRIPLE NICKLE IS AND HE WILL TELL YOU ITS A 555 (V8) CUBIC INCH MOTOR THAT CUMMINS BUILT FOR MOSTLY INDUSTRIAL, MARINE AND SEVERAL OTHER APPLICATIONS OVER 30 YEARS AGO

ORDER ONE AND YOU WILL GET A LEFT HANDED PTG THAT YOULL BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND A HOME IT FOR ON YOUR DODGE.

THANKS GREG

 

[TractorNut]

Thanks for the information Greg... I need to check some numbers. . I might shoot you some PM's next week when I get back to my spare pumps. . with some more questions. .

I'm guessing if it was a mechanical failure you could move the Pump control Module, timing solenoid, and control solenoid over to the new (different) pump... I guess it why I asked about what fails on these pumps. .

Thanks

Bryan

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

i too saw the ad on ebay, and emailed the person selling it to let him know it was a cummins application pump (0470 506 029) not a dodge application. He told me that since he was a former service manager at cummins he knew more than I. ( my shop has rebuilt over 1200 vp 44s to date) the cummins application has a completly different calibration than the dodges, as well as a cummins uses a different ecm than the dodge. as far as a triple nickle (555) hes full of s*** as to date the only major mods to these injection pumps hAve been the main housing on pumps that used the brass bushing also the psg (brain on top of pump) has been updated,

as far as pump numbers i will give a suppersession guide,

standard output (so)

0470506005 S/S BY

0470506011 S/S BY

0470506015 S/S BY

0470506027 CURRENT PRODUCTION



HIGH OUTPUT (HO)

0470506014 S/S BY

0470506021 S/S BY

0470506028 CURRENT PRODUCTION



CUMMINS MIDRANGE WHICH ARE APPLICATIONS USED BY OTHER THAN DODGE SUCH AS MOTORHOMES SCHOOL BUSES DELEIVERY TRUCKS ETC.

0470506003 S/S BY

0470506012 S/S BY

0470506029 CURRENT PRODUCTION CUMMINS # 3964555



P. S. ASK ANY GOOD CUMMINS MECHANIC WHAT A TRIPLE NICKLE IS AND HE WILL TELL YOU ITS A 555 (V8) CUBIC INCH MOTOR THAT CUMMINS BUILT FOR MOSTLY INDUSTRIAL, MARINE AND SEVERAL OTHER APPLICATIONS OVER 30 YEARS AGO

ORDER ONE AND YOU WILL GET A LEFT HANDED PTG THAT YOULL BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND A HOME IT FOR ON YOUR DODGE.

THANKS GREG

Providing your numbers are correct, I wonder why my H. O. has a S. O. pump on it. Any ideas? I know it hasnt been to the shop for anything.

 

[GregFisher]

What year is your truck, auto or man. trans?

 

[tractorface]

One more question

Greg,

Kinda off thread but sorta fits. I bought a Hot Rod pump from Piers and I was under the impression that this pump would fit any Dodge Cummins, it could be they asked no questions cause they had me on file, not sure. Eiher way I really like it a lot. Any idea what is done to these, I don't need a super technical answer just a basic idea.

Thanks

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

What year is your truck, auto or man. trans?

I have the 2002 H. O. truck/manual trans

 

[GregFisher]

Tractor, Not Sure Where Harry Is Getting His Pumps Or What Is Being Done To Them, Although I Know One Way Is To Install An So Hyd Head Into An Ho Pump. The Plunger Diameter Ofan Ho Pump Is 7mm Whereas The Plunger Diameter Of An So Head Is 7. 5mm.

 

[GregFisher]

Git,

The Only Pump That Came On Ho 2002 Manual Trans Should Be A 0470506028. What Pump # Do You Have?

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Mr. Fisher,

The only number I can come up with is on a bar code that has 393767000001 on it. I got a cross reference one time that gave me that number to a Bosch number of 0470506027. I am sorry I dont remember where I got that cross reference from, so maybe I am wrong about the number then.



It seemed to me that the DC # was 5019657AD and that cross referenced over to the Bosch # of 0470506027. It could be possible I got my wires crossed somewhere, maybe you could help me figure it out. Thanks

 

[jtisdale]

I just thought I would confuse the topic a little more. I know two TDR members that have been running the "midrange" pump with great success for a while now. Maybe either one of them will chime in with some numbers.

 

[GregFisher]

Git, Mopar # 5019657ad Converts To Bosch # Ipvr17x Which Is A Reman Bosch # For 0470506028 Ho 2002. You Have The Right Pump On Your Engine.