You heard me the vp44 is dead long live the p7100. Bosch is retooling for the commonrail. They ceased production of the vp44 several days ago. Is that the sound of prices going up i hear in the distance? "can i get a vp44" " well yes sir that will be $4200 with taxes. thank you and here is the ky" " would you like some tucks medicated pads with your purchase sir" Maybe im just a pessimist but the rule of trade is supply and demand. Supply just went to crap and all the places are already on back order for a pump out of production. i see a p7100 im my near future. Have someone already lined up to do the swap. No more lift pump. No more high failure rate. thank you and good bye
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) vp44 is history
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researh it i seen the letter straight from bosch. My diesel guru is certified to rebuild from bosch (not sure if that includes rebuilding vp44s) and they informed him a few days ago. He said he already had 10 new pumps on back order and they told him he was up a creek. The local stealer told him they have been having a heck of a time just getting one or two because they are of such limited supply. Tell us what you find out. You know we are in the boonies up here and we get screwed all the way around anyways.
Hmmmmmmmmm
Kinda doubt virtually everything you posted.
A. The pump is part of the fuel system, and it is therefore covered under the federal emissions law.
B. The cost to DC of covering pump failures, and having to retrofit the old pump would be financial suicide, and definitely not in Dieter Szetch's plans.
C. The old pump does not allow the engine to be emissions legal, which is why the new pump is used, and why it will remain in production in accordance with federal law.
D. Cummins is owned by Ford,(yeah, right) and everybody knows that Ford needs all the help they can get.
If you are going to spread rumors, use some imagination.
Ron
Kinda doubt virtually everything you posted.
A. The pump is part of the fuel system, and it is therefore covered under the federal emissions law.
B. The cost to DC of covering pump failures, and having to retrofit the old pump would be financial suicide, and definitely not in Dieter Szetch's plans.
C. The old pump does not allow the engine to be emissions legal, which is why the new pump is used, and why it will remain in production in accordance with federal law.
D. Cummins is owned by Ford,(yeah, right) and everybody knows that Ford needs all the help they can get.
If you are going to spread rumors, use some imagination.
Ron
all i know is that a month ago i was talking to DD about their new hot rod VP 44 and they didn';t want to sell it yet because it wasn't tested fully and they did not want to quote a price yet because they heard that prices were going up on them, ... . take it for whats worth, this is all i know.
I think this will mean that any VP44 you get will be remanufactured. I don't know if the price will go up on them...
Charles
Charles
I'll disagree without be disagreeable
My sources tell me that the VP44 use is growing on agricultural tractors and equipment. Spoke to my local Dodge parts guy recently and he told me that their pumps are now marked remanufactured but appear to still be new pumps, I've not found any pump shops that rebuild them but when ANYONE can buy a brand new VP44 for $1300 (call Piers or Blue Chip) there is little incentive to invest in a rebuilding equipment.
I may get flamed but I currently own four CTD's-- one VP44, one P7100, and two VE pumps. I've had less trouble, make the most power and get the best driveability with the VP44.
Bought a used '913 P7100 pump to uprate the hp on my '94 175hp engine. Told a nationally known and respected hi-performance pump shop that I wanted to make more than the 500rwhp that my stock pumped 24valve engine was making. They estimated $2800 for pump P7100 work alone!! Different cam, bigger barrels and plungers etc. I would need twin turbos to take advantage of the exta fueling capability and would gain rpm but little else. The P7100 is a great pump but they do fail, I just bought a used 160hp Ppump from a member that got a large estimate to rebuild his pump that failed in one barrel. He purchased a used pump to save $'s and sold me his core.
My VP44 may go out tomorrow but I like it because I can make great power with less smoke then a P7100 which in part may be due to the 24 valve engine but the VP is higher pressure and adjusts the timing to load and rpm in ways that the P7100 can't. There aren't any throttle linkage or shut down solinoids to replace on the VP44 but I have on the Ppump.
I'm not aware of price increases or shortages. Spoke with Diesel Dynamics last month inregard to their uprated VP44 and they said they were testing reliability before selling the upgrade to the public. Just my humble opinion, Larry
My sources tell me that the VP44 use is growing on agricultural tractors and equipment. Spoke to my local Dodge parts guy recently and he told me that their pumps are now marked remanufactured but appear to still be new pumps, I've not found any pump shops that rebuild them but when ANYONE can buy a brand new VP44 for $1300 (call Piers or Blue Chip) there is little incentive to invest in a rebuilding equipment.
I may get flamed but I currently own four CTD's-- one VP44, one P7100, and two VE pumps. I've had less trouble, make the most power and get the best driveability with the VP44.
Bought a used '913 P7100 pump to uprate the hp on my '94 175hp engine. Told a nationally known and respected hi-performance pump shop that I wanted to make more than the 500rwhp that my stock pumped 24valve engine was making. They estimated $2800 for pump P7100 work alone!! Different cam, bigger barrels and plungers etc. I would need twin turbos to take advantage of the exta fueling capability and would gain rpm but little else. The P7100 is a great pump but they do fail, I just bought a used 160hp Ppump from a member that got a large estimate to rebuild his pump that failed in one barrel. He purchased a used pump to save $'s and sold me his core.
My VP44 may go out tomorrow but I like it because I can make great power with less smoke then a P7100 which in part may be due to the 24 valve engine but the VP is higher pressure and adjusts the timing to load and rpm in ways that the P7100 can't. There aren't any throttle linkage or shut down solinoids to replace on the VP44 but I have on the Ppump.
I'm not aware of price increases or shortages. Spoke with Diesel Dynamics last month inregard to their uprated VP44 and they said they were testing reliability before selling the upgrade to the public. Just my humble opinion, Larry
call bosch we are now obsolete
I assure you its legit. They are going over to common rail on the new cummins so they ceased production of the vp44. There will be rebuilds abound im sure but no more new pumps. Here in alaska it is difficult to get a new pump trust me. i have one lined up to buy to put away for later( plan on keeping my truck for a while). I am not easily misled and a bosch certified pump rebuilder showed me and told me the news today. If this was the show me state id be pretty convinced. I will try to get a copy of the letter and scan it and upload it onto the site.
I am doing the pump swap later on my own dime and chrysler cannot due to emissions. Chrysler already has stuck a rebuild on my truck. So this seems to me to be the way it will be from now on. Anyone else pull the numbers off your warrantied pump? See if you got a rebuild. Im not complaining mine is tuff as nails.
I assure you its legit. They are going over to common rail on the new cummins so they ceased production of the vp44. There will be rebuilds abound im sure but no more new pumps. Here in alaska it is difficult to get a new pump trust me. i have one lined up to buy to put away for later( plan on keeping my truck for a while). I am not easily misled and a bosch certified pump rebuilder showed me and told me the news today. If this was the show me state id be pretty convinced. I will try to get a copy of the letter and scan it and upload it onto the site.
I am doing the pump swap later on my own dime and chrysler cannot due to emissions. Chrysler already has stuck a rebuild on my truck. So this seems to me to be the way it will be from now on. Anyone else pull the numbers off your warrantied pump? See if you got a rebuild. Im not complaining mine is tuff as nails.
response to test stand
that is better news than I heard. My guy spoke with bosch two days ago and they said that they stopped production. Now this is a certified bosch reman and distributer. wonder why the discrepency. I went and reread the letter and it seemed very straight forward. He would not let me have a copy. It seems to reason to me that they would keep a small production facility running.
the test stand is a mere 120,000 dollars not including tooling. the factory trainer just started school 7 days or so ago so no one is getting trained in the next few months. 3 places now own a test stand in the U. S. but not the tools or the training. now heres my question is it cost efficient to train a technician to work on a 120k stand to reman these things for a 800 or 900 reman? I wonder if since diesel dynamics is working on a high performance model if they are one of the three with the pricey stand? He said prices will PROBABLY increase on the 275's also since bosch is retooling for common rail. He has had 10 new vp44 and 100 275's on back order for months. It might be that we are in the buttcrack of gods country we get whatever is left over. Kat has anyone else spoke to bosch he had an older letter that basically said what you quoted maybe things have changed.
that is better news than I heard. My guy spoke with bosch two days ago and they said that they stopped production. Now this is a certified bosch reman and distributer. wonder why the discrepency. I went and reread the letter and it seemed very straight forward. He would not let me have a copy. It seems to reason to me that they would keep a small production facility running.
the test stand is a mere 120,000 dollars not including tooling. the factory trainer just started school 7 days or so ago so no one is getting trained in the next few months. 3 places now own a test stand in the U. S. but not the tools or the training. now heres my question is it cost efficient to train a technician to work on a 120k stand to reman these things for a 800 or 900 reman? I wonder if since diesel dynamics is working on a high performance model if they are one of the three with the pricey stand? He said prices will PROBABLY increase on the 275's also since bosch is retooling for common rail. He has had 10 new vp44 and 100 275's on back order for months. It might be that we are in the buttcrack of gods country we get whatever is left over. Kat has anyone else spoke to bosch he had an older letter that basically said what you quoted maybe things have changed.
Called Robert Bosch Company today...
I called Robert Bosch Corp. , Automotive Group, in Farmington Hills, MI today and was transfered to the diesel pump division. Left a message concerning the production of VP44 pumps. The gentleman that called me back, assured that usage was growing around the world in different applications and production would continue. We had a nice conversation until he asked what my interest was. I told him that I was concerned about production due to fuel enhancement products I was working on for the Cummins application. That almost terminated our dialogue. He said that he could not give any more information due to federal emission law, liability and Cummins wish that their engines were operated with in design parameters. He did finally say that when he was a kid he would have had the same interest... .
When I pressed that my interest was in sled pulling, drag racing which were off road, non warrenty uses and that I only wanted to know about production of stock VP44's, not technical info, he said that it would depend on demand and production would continue but our specific models may be in less demand then others that will continue for a longer period of production. This makes sense the same as the P7100 pump and the VE pump are not in production for on road vehicles and there are variations that don't use an AFC housing etc. I look forward to the common rail system with it's higher pressure and fuel/timing flexibililty. It should be great if we can crack the software. However I wouldn't worry about the VP 44 going away in this decade or even next.
I called Robert Bosch Corp. , Automotive Group, in Farmington Hills, MI today and was transfered to the diesel pump division. Left a message concerning the production of VP44 pumps. The gentleman that called me back, assured that usage was growing around the world in different applications and production would continue. We had a nice conversation until he asked what my interest was. I told him that I was concerned about production due to fuel enhancement products I was working on for the Cummins application. That almost terminated our dialogue. He said that he could not give any more information due to federal emission law, liability and Cummins wish that their engines were operated with in design parameters. He did finally say that when he was a kid he would have had the same interest... .
When I pressed that my interest was in sled pulling, drag racing which were off road, non warrenty uses and that I only wanted to know about production of stock VP44's, not technical info, he said that it would depend on demand and production would continue but our specific models may be in less demand then others that will continue for a longer period of production. This makes sense the same as the P7100 pump and the VE pump are not in production for on road vehicles and there are variations that don't use an AFC housing etc. I look forward to the common rail system with it's higher pressure and fuel/timing flexibililty. It should be great if we can crack the software. However I wouldn't worry about the VP 44 going away in this decade or even next.Re: response to test stand
Theres more then 3 of those stands in the US. Theres close to 40 or so I believe... . yes its a $100,000 stand. . and I "think" to do the VP44 you have to purchase addtional equipment that adds onto that stand. So there might only be 3 "ready to go right now" stands... but theres more out there. The Bosch shop around the cornor has one. I believe its $43,000 to get the training/tools to be certified to work on the VP44... which is just starting to take place. No Diesel Dynamics doesn't have that stand, and I doubt they will get one, they use a Bosch shop very close to them that has the "base" stand already.
I'll ask them what their vibes on the VP44 is. But yes Bosch is pushing remans now and they'll be made/remaned in Chzeckslovikia.
Theres more then 3 of those stands in the US. Theres close to 40 or so I believe... . yes its a $100,000 stand. . and I "think" to do the VP44 you have to purchase addtional equipment that adds onto that stand. So there might only be 3 "ready to go right now" stands... but theres more out there. The Bosch shop around the cornor has one. I believe its $43,000 to get the training/tools to be certified to work on the VP44... which is just starting to take place. No Diesel Dynamics doesn't have that stand, and I doubt they will get one, they use a Bosch shop very close to them that has the "base" stand already.
I'll ask them what their vibes on the VP44 is. But yes Bosch is pushing remans now and they'll be made/remaned in Chzeckslovikia.
bosch
Thanks Kat. I wonder why the bosch rep is being misled so bad. This man is very intelligent and doesnt mind sharing knowledge and information. He deals directly with Pier and Diesel Dynamics so I assumed he was in the know in our applications. Why are they feeding him disinformation. Futher along with his Disinformation they told him that the reman program had not been started yet. According to his knowledge they will seed the market with new pumps to start the reman market. Im going to print everything stated here so far for him to read so he can quiz whomever is telling him these things so that he may get more accurate information. I am not intentionally trying to start false rumors just repeating what a bosch certified rebuilder and distributer was told by the bosch representive and the contents of the letter from bosch that he has shown me on two seperate occasions. I took him and his statements at face value.
40 143K investments that not one shop can use. WHY? This test stand obviously must work for a great many applications for the shops to feel that they will be cost effective. The Bosch representative told him not one stand was tooled for the vp44 yet and that the trainer was in school in Germany to learn how to teach people to reman these pumps over here. I now know why I waited 3 and a half weeks for a fuel injection pump. It is because not one US business remans these pumps. I Kinda figured they were slow boating it from Japan or something. Czech is an even bigger suprise.
Thanks Kat. I wonder why the bosch rep is being misled so bad. This man is very intelligent and doesnt mind sharing knowledge and information. He deals directly with Pier and Diesel Dynamics so I assumed he was in the know in our applications. Why are they feeding him disinformation. Futher along with his Disinformation they told him that the reman program had not been started yet. According to his knowledge they will seed the market with new pumps to start the reman market. Im going to print everything stated here so far for him to read so he can quiz whomever is telling him these things so that he may get more accurate information. I am not intentionally trying to start false rumors just repeating what a bosch certified rebuilder and distributer was told by the bosch representive and the contents of the letter from bosch that he has shown me on two seperate occasions. I took him and his statements at face value.
40 143K investments that not one shop can use. WHY? This test stand obviously must work for a great many applications for the shops to feel that they will be cost effective. The Bosch representative told him not one stand was tooled for the vp44 yet and that the trainer was in school in Germany to learn how to teach people to reman these pumps over here. I now know why I waited 3 and a half weeks for a fuel injection pump. It is because not one US business remans these pumps. I Kinda figured they were slow boating it from Japan or something. Czech is an even bigger suprise.
Poor information!
Bosch has to make parts for the VP44 for 10 years after stopping production...
John Deere is using the VP44 in the 6068..... this is to meet Tier 2 emitions
the ISB is not the only engine that uses the VP44.....
Bosch has to make parts for the VP44 for 10 years after stopping production...
John Deere is using the VP44 in the 6068..... this is to meet Tier 2 emitions
the ISB is not the only engine that uses the VP44.....
Re: bosch
We are both pretty much saying the same things? Just with a lil different twist is all. I'm sure hes right in many ways ... . so I'm not sure who is saying what. I'm just going on some info I had.
The three stand thing was just a guess, as to why its only 3 stands in the US.
I'll go get the model number of the test stand around the cornor tommorrow or Friday. I'll also ask'em if they have any letters/information lately concerning the VP44. My info comes from the same place as yours, a Bosch certified shop.
The 100k pump stand is used in many other applications so the shop wouldn't get it just for the VP44 stuff.
Please don't take my posts as stating your information is wrong, like you I am just repeating the information I have.
We are both pretty much saying the same things? Just with a lil different twist is all. I'm sure hes right in many ways ... . so I'm not sure who is saying what. I'm just going on some info I had.
The three stand thing was just a guess, as to why its only 3 stands in the US.
I'll go get the model number of the test stand around the cornor tommorrow or Friday. I'll also ask'em if they have any letters/information lately concerning the VP44. My info comes from the same place as yours, a Bosch certified shop.
The 100k pump stand is used in many other applications so the shop wouldn't get it just for the VP44 stuff.
Please don't take my posts as stating your information is wrong, like you I am just repeating the information I have.
FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:
Eric Kosmider
Robert Bosch Corporation
248 848-2474
-- email address removed -- Shelly Havard
Eisbrenner Public Relations
248 641-1446
-- email address removed --
BOSCH TO SUPPLY DIESEL COMMON RAIL SYSTEM ON NEW 2003 DODGE RAM HEAVY-DUTY PICKUP TRUCKS
FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. , March 5, 2002 - Robert Bosch Corporation announced today it is finalizing production to supply common rail fuel injection systems for the new 2003 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 heavy-duty diesel pickup trucks.
The Bosch common rail system is featured on the new Cummins 5. 9 liter ISB-E engine. The inline six-cylinder engine is the most powerful turbo diesel engine available in the 2500/3500 segment, producing 305 horsepower at 2,900 rpm and 555 lb. -ft. of torque at 1,400 rpm.
Common rail is a fuel injection system that separates pressure generation and injection events, providing engine manufacturers with a large degree of application flexibility for meeting stringent emissions. The Bosch common rail system is capable of injection pressures up to 1600 bar (^23500psi).
Injection pressure is generated independent of engine speed and injection quantity, providing optimal injection pressure throughout the entire range of engine operation. As a result, the Ram 2500/3500 diesel trucks will be equipped with high power density engines, offering higher torque output as well as decreased combustion noise, emissions and fuel consumption.
Bosch coordinated the design and engineering for the Dodge Ram common rail system at its North American Automotive Diesel Technology Center in Farmington Hills, Mich. The Dodge Ram system is the second diesel common rail application developed at the Automotive Diesel Technology Center for the U. S. market. The Automotive Diesel Technology Center provides a wide range of capabilities including design integration, application engineering, program management and sales support.
Bosch will supply key components for the Dodge Ram common rail system out of its Charleston, S. C. manufacturing facility.
Bosch designs and produces precision automotive components and systems sold to vehicle and powertrain manufacturers worldwide. These include systems and components for gasoline and diesel injection, airbag components, ABS and conventional braking systems, telematics, as well as small motors, electrical and electronic equipment.
Robert Bosch Corporation, the wholly owned subsidiary of Robert Bosch GmbH, headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany, is responsible for North American operations.
http://www.boschusa.com/News/ViewNews.asp?NewsType=PR&ID=17
Eric Kosmider
Robert Bosch Corporation
248 848-2474
-- email address removed -- Shelly Havard
Eisbrenner Public Relations
248 641-1446
-- email address removed --
BOSCH TO SUPPLY DIESEL COMMON RAIL SYSTEM ON NEW 2003 DODGE RAM HEAVY-DUTY PICKUP TRUCKS
FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. , March 5, 2002 - Robert Bosch Corporation announced today it is finalizing production to supply common rail fuel injection systems for the new 2003 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 heavy-duty diesel pickup trucks.
The Bosch common rail system is featured on the new Cummins 5. 9 liter ISB-E engine. The inline six-cylinder engine is the most powerful turbo diesel engine available in the 2500/3500 segment, producing 305 horsepower at 2,900 rpm and 555 lb. -ft. of torque at 1,400 rpm.
Common rail is a fuel injection system that separates pressure generation and injection events, providing engine manufacturers with a large degree of application flexibility for meeting stringent emissions. The Bosch common rail system is capable of injection pressures up to 1600 bar (^23500psi).
Injection pressure is generated independent of engine speed and injection quantity, providing optimal injection pressure throughout the entire range of engine operation. As a result, the Ram 2500/3500 diesel trucks will be equipped with high power density engines, offering higher torque output as well as decreased combustion noise, emissions and fuel consumption.
Bosch coordinated the design and engineering for the Dodge Ram common rail system at its North American Automotive Diesel Technology Center in Farmington Hills, Mich. The Dodge Ram system is the second diesel common rail application developed at the Automotive Diesel Technology Center for the U. S. market. The Automotive Diesel Technology Center provides a wide range of capabilities including design integration, application engineering, program management and sales support.
Bosch will supply key components for the Dodge Ram common rail system out of its Charleston, S. C. manufacturing facility.
Bosch designs and produces precision automotive components and systems sold to vehicle and powertrain manufacturers worldwide. These include systems and components for gasoline and diesel injection, airbag components, ABS and conventional braking systems, telematics, as well as small motors, electrical and electronic equipment.
Robert Bosch Corporation, the wholly owned subsidiary of Robert Bosch GmbH, headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany, is responsible for North American operations.
http://www.boschusa.com/News/ViewNews.asp?NewsType=PR&ID=17
Last edited by a moderator:
Ack. . get rid of the commonrail talk!
You should check out the international versions of Bosch web pages, the German one and the Chzech one are interesting.
http://www.bosch-pt.de/pt/de/start/index_flash.htm
You should check out the international versions of Bosch web pages, the German one and the Chzech one are interesting.
http://www.bosch-pt.de/pt/de/start/index_flash.htm
Last edited by a moderator:
Joseph Donnelly
TDR MEMBER
You might check TDR #35, pp. 24-26. The test stand is the Bosch EPS815 and does work on other pumps. It will cost about $40,000 to buy the stuff to use it with the VP44. The VP44 rebuild program is just starting, as I noted in that article.
Production of new VP44s may be dependent upon demand. For example, new P7100s are still made with various part numbers, including the 913 used on 215 hp Rams. However, it is cost effective only once a year when Bosch has a production run of these pumps. The Bosch shops order pumps at that time if they can afford to stock them through the following year. The rest of the time, it is either expensive or you must find a Bosch shop that has one on the shelf and will sell it at the lower price.
*******Told a nationally known and respected hi-performance pump shop that I wanted to make more than the 500rwhp that my stock pumped 24valve engine was making. They estimated $2800 for pump P7100 work alone!! Different cam, bigger barrels and plungers etc. I would need twin turbos to take advantage of the exta fueling capability and would gain rpm but little else. *******
That pump shop doesn't know their stuff. My Ram still has the original pump parts mentioned above. Also it has only one turbo.
Production of new VP44s may be dependent upon demand. For example, new P7100s are still made with various part numbers, including the 913 used on 215 hp Rams. However, it is cost effective only once a year when Bosch has a production run of these pumps. The Bosch shops order pumps at that time if they can afford to stock them through the following year. The rest of the time, it is either expensive or you must find a Bosch shop that has one on the shelf and will sell it at the lower price.
*******Told a nationally known and respected hi-performance pump shop that I wanted to make more than the 500rwhp that my stock pumped 24valve engine was making. They estimated $2800 for pump P7100 work alone!! Different cam, bigger barrels and plungers etc. I would need twin turbos to take advantage of the exta fueling capability and would gain rpm but little else. *******
That pump shop doesn't know their stuff. My Ram still has the original pump parts mentioned above. Also it has only one turbo.
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