VW Jetta

[BoeingDiesel]

I'm going to buy my younger daughter a new car in the near future and she has her heart set on a Jetta. Most of her girlfriends drive the same. I've done some reading and the Jetta seems to have good reviews and has a decent resale value. I really like the TDI option, except, I'm not sure that she will be diligent (in my absence) in maintaining the vehicle. But in general, any thoughts, recommendations will be greatly appreciated. She will be using the car to commute to and from college on a daily basis and the other stuff the women do.

Thanks

gregg

 

[jgillott]

Quite a few of the members here on TDR also own the TDI VW's. I'm sure many will chime in here with their opinions. I've personally never owned a Jetta, but practically every one of my friends here have had several of them. From what I understand, they have been quite pleased.

 

[seafish]

There is alot to learn about if buying a VW tdi... just like our trucks, different models and generations have their own strengths, weaknesses and quirks.

myturbodiesel.com is like the TDR for VW TDI owners... LOTS of good, accurate info, and also a dam good buyers guide for learning about the diffrerent generations.

I'd recommend reading over there for a bit before you make a decision on which car you want to help your daughter buy.

Here is the link to their Buyers Guide, though the entire site is worth exploring.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/tdi-reviews-2.htm

 

[HBarlow]

Gregg,

I recently bought one to survive the kenyan's fuel prices. It's an '09 Jetta Sportwagen TDI and I'm really enjoying it. Jettas, like all German cars, handle great and have excellent brakes. With the TDI engine they are quick and economical also.

As seafish wrote above myturbodiesel is an excellent website to learn about them and so is TDI Club. Everything I have learned about them which is still relatively little, I have learned from those two websites. I'll help you get started with a short summary.

Early 1. 9 liter TDIs through 2003 are like 12 valve Cummins. They are considered the simple, reliable, durable, and most economical models but their automatic transmissions are reportedly fragile and failure prone.

The '04 - '06 models were the most highly optioned and were attractive but high mileage cars usually require a camshaft and lifters replacement and that could be a reason they're for sale. They were the early HPCR engines with the injectors driven by the cam and the extreme pressures on cam lobes reportedly wear cams out. Use of the proper oil minimizes the problem but I don't know if it will prevent it entirely.

No '07 through '08s were offered with TDI engines, at least not in North America.

'09s and up are 2. 0 liter, produce 140hp and 236 ft. lbs. of torque, and are very peppy and fast accelerating. They use a Bosch fuel system (all TDIs do) like our 6. 7s and are very nice cars. Most have a six speed DSG automatic. It is actually a manual six speed transmission with a dual mass flywheel and clutch assembly that is autoshifted by a small computerized "Mechatronic" (sp?) shifting device. They work great but some have experienced failure of the dmf which I think is often a sorry choice.

Some owners have experienced DSG or injection pump failures. When HPCR failures occur, tiny metal particles are recirculated through the entire fuel system from tank to injectors. Dealer repair is very expensive, approximately $9k! Failure may be covered by some insurance companies under comprehensive claim if evidence of fuel contamination can be established. VWoA claims failures are caused either by mistakenly fueling with gasoline or by dirty fuel. The website whiners who have experienced failures blame VWoA, God, and everyone but themselves. Official reports show that about 1% of cars have experienced failures. I don't know the cause but was not afraid to buy one. I try to buy fuel only from high volume retailers like SAM's Club who I hope are properly servicing pump filters. VW recommends a fuel additive in the owner's manuals so I'm adding 4 oz. of Power Service with each tank fill.

VW maintenance is important but not really a big deal. Oil and oil filter changes are required at 10k intervals, air filters at 20k, automatic transmissions at 40k, and cam belts/timing belts require replacement at between 80k and 120k depending on engine model. Timing belt replacement includes tensioner, small parts, and a water pump. Independent shops will do the job for around $800 to $900. Dealers charge around $1200 to $1300. Later VWs absolutely must use engine oil with a specific 505 or 507 spec and should use VW/German filters. Timing belt replacement at the specified interval is critical as failure will result in contact between valves and piston tops. Very destructive.

VW dealer service departments vary in quality like Dodge dealers. The websites listed above include names and contact info for "gurus" who are independent mechanics who specialize in VW/Audi cars by state and have proven themself trustworthy. I have made contact with a guru in the DFW area who moved to the US from Europe as an adult and was a mechanic in Europe. He is well liked and trusted by TDI owners. If I have any kind of major failure he will be my backup. My car came with an aftermarket warranty through 98k miles that had been purchased by the prior owner. I gave her $100 to transfer ownership to me. If I should have an expensive failure I will attempt to use the warranty. If it turns out to be a a bogus warranty as some do I'll trailer the car to the guru near Dallas.

If you buy your daughter a VW TDI simply insist that she have it serviced every 10k miles either by a good dealer or a guru in your area.

Used VW TDIs tend to have lots of miles on them and clean ones command high prices on the used market. I searched for several months using a nationwide craigslist search engine. I found JSW (Jetta Sportwagen) TDIs I liked in MD and TN but each time I wasted a day or two deciding and by the time I made an offer I was too late. The one I bought was in Norman, OK. It was precisely what I wanted - a white '09 JSW TDI with 59k miles offered by a private owner at clean used book. I immediately contacted the seller, an extremely pleasant young married teacher, and got the VIN. I ran a carfax, found it okay, and made an offer asap $1000 under asking price. She accepted and I bought it unseen. TDR member Dick Trombley who was here visiting dropped me at their home on his way back to VT and I drove it home. The car was as described and the photos showed. I took it to the local dealer for the 60k service the following week.

It's a great car. I keep the back seats folded down so my two young female German Shepherds can ride in it. It delivers approximately 40 mpg even with all the wind we're having right now. My truck sits abandoned in the barn.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

There is alot to learn about if buying a VW tdi... just like our trucks, different models and generations have their own strengths, weaknesses and quirks.



myturbodiesel.com is like the TDR for VW TDI owners... LOTS of good, accurate info, and also a dam good buyers guide for learning about the diffrerent generations.



I'd recommend reading over there for a bit before you make a decision on which car you want to help your daughter buy.



Here is the link to their Buyers Guide, though the entire site is worth exploring.



http://www.myturbodiesel.com/tdi-reviews-2.htm

Thanks for the link Seafish.

gregg

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Thanks Mr. Barlow for the in depth information. I've decided that a new car purchase is the best way for me to go, so now, I have to decide on gas vs. diesel. We're no stranger to German engineering in our home and I do like the Tiptronic feature. My is daughter is academically brilliant, beautiful (and I say this with the utmost love and respect for her) a stereotypical blonde, hence my concern; will she remember to pump the correct fuel, get the car in for scheduled service, etc. Be a heck of a lot simpler if she'd move to the LoneStar with us so I can get her started off in the right direction.

Something just occurred to me... maybe I should get a TDI??

gregg

 

[HBarlow]

Gregg,

I haven't read any owner reports on gas VW Jettas but a couple of magazine editor test reports I have seen were not impressed. I think the standard engine is a strange five cylinder in line. Not very powerful or great on fuel I don't think.

I love VW TDIs but think I would buy a Honda Civic, Nissan Sentra, Toyota Corolla, or Mazda 323 if I wanted a gas econobox. All of them will probably run 100k miles without even changing the engine oil and filter, and 300k if you service them.

 

[Flying_gage]

BD without your presence, I would say stay away from the jetta diesel, unless you can afford a newer one. I purchased a '02 in '03 with 20k on the odometer. Long story short it was a lemon... In 9 mos of ownership and 25k miles, it was in the shop 12 times under warranty for intake issues, electrical issues and interior issues.

In that time frame, (99-03) the gas/diesel cars were hit or miss. I knew this yet still bought it. Would have loved to keep it but the cost of ownership would have been excessive after the warranty ran out.

I would also recommend a toyota or honda as a first car. Parts are everywhere and they are relatively cheap. The same cannot be said for the jetta's.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Actually, this is her second car. I'm definitely going to go with a new car as it will be the most secure option and should give her years of service. Something I'm not real fond of is front wheel drive vehicles. We're going to test drive some of the various models today... I'm thinking the SEL will be the pick.

Thanks all

gregg

 

[Simplysmn]

Jetta TDI's are very sweet car's handle very nice and get Great mpg we bought our's in June and rigth now it has a little over 12,000 miles on it run's quiet and no troubles what so ever .

 

[Jim W]

I agree with most of what that has been said about the VW TDI Jetta. But If I was in the market now I would buy the Passat TDI version. This seems like a better roomier car with gages instead of the idiot lights. In 2011MY VW de-content the Jetta car line although the TDI still retains the 4-wheel disc brakes, most of the features that makes the Jetta Sport wagon and Golf platforms so great were removed from the Jetta in 2011. This may or may not be a +/- for you, it was not for my wife so we bought the 2011 Jetta TDI.

My wife is responsible for filling up the car's fuel tank on her car; the only requirement is that she provides me the mileage at time of fill-up and receipt. This was her position since it is her car she wants' to maintain it; she schedules the appointments and takes it to the dealer for maintenance and free car washes. VW has provided yellow stickers under a recall program on the 11's and 12's to place around the fuel cap and on the inside of the fuel door. These are bright yellow and say in black bold letters DEISEL FUEL ONLY. This is their response so far to the HPFP failures, VW contents that most of the failures are from gasoline entering the fuel system somehow. This should help her in fueling the car and keeping gasoline out of it.

Hope this helps a little?

Jim W.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

I agree with most of what that has been said about the VW TDI Jetta. But If I was in the market now I would buy the Passat TDI version. This seems like a better roomier car with gages instead of the idiot lights. In 2011MY VW de-content the Jetta car line although the TDI still retains the 4-wheel disc brakes, most of the features that makes the Jetta Sport wagon and Golf platforms so great were removed from the Jetta in 2011. This may or may not be a +/- for you, it was not for my wife so we bought the 2011 Jetta TDI.



My wife is responsible for filling up the car’s fuel tank on her car; the only requirement is that she provides me the mileage at time of fill-up and receipt. This was her position since it is her car she wants’ to maintain it; she schedules the appointments and takes it to the dealer for maintenance and free car washes. VW has provided yellow stickers under a recall program on the 11’s and 12’s to place around the fuel cap and on the inside of the fuel door. These are bright yellow and say in black bold letters DEISEL FUEL ONLY. This is their response so far to the HPFP failures, VW contents that most of the failures are from gasoline entering the fuel system somehow. This should help her in fueling the car and keeping gasoline out of it.



Hope this helps a little?



Jim W.

It does... thank you Jim. We just got back and coincidentally per your comment on the Passat, rings true. The extra $$ is worth the investment to me as I know she will have a reliable car for years to come. Yep, the stickers were there... would be pretty hard to miss.

thanks

gregg

 

[kkelley]

A little added info from me here (8 VWs in the immediate family's past/present ownership).
The TDIs are great engines but absolutely must use VW approved oil. Not saying you need to get it at the dealership, but make sure what you are putting in meets the VW spec for your engine. If you are thinking new, the 140hp CRD engine uses VW 507. 00 oil, it is a low ash turbo diesel rated synthetic 5w-30 and no the regular synthetic 5w-30 does not work. The only oil I have seen for sale that meets this is the Castrol they sell at the dealer and a Mobil product in a green bottle ESP 5w-30 synthetic. As far as the high pressure pump failure, it's been confirmed by many dealers that the fuel had gasoline contamination in almost every case. At first they were warrantying it, but then they printed the stickers and sent them to every purchaser and added them to the new cars on the lot to warn drivers to not fill with gas. There is currently no approved fuel additive for the new engines, they are so sure of their tech that even anti-gel is not reccommended. I went rounds with the customer service rep on this, and although it is not forbidden from being used, they will not warranty emissions or fuel system components if they have been used.
Now, if a TDI is a little rich, or you don't want to risk a $6k repair and you decide on a gas engine, don't worry. They are very robust motors and also last a long time. The 2. 5l inline 5 is hated upon by the magazine guys because it's not as economical as the other brand's four bangers, and not as powerful as their sixes. It has 170hp and 180lb/ft totque, as powerful as most sixes, and actually has a more broad torque band than other engines in this power range. The mileage is actually pretty good for the power you get too, my mother-in-law's returns 28-30mpg average for her mostly highway commute. Others with some city driving see 22-25mpg average. I'd say pretty good for the power you have available, and not having to thrash it for it (like high hp four cylinders. ) The 2. 0t turbo four is an amazine engine also. It is high maintenance though and I don't suggest one for someone who isn't on top of changes in how the car runs. It is direct injected like a diesel and this prevents the fuel from being able to wash the back sides of the intake valves so crank case oil vapors will eventually carbon up the valves. Revised PCV systems have limited this and probably won't be an issue until 80-100k miles or so. The high pressure fule pump, just like the TDI, has cam and folower wear. It is almost regular maintenance to pull it and check condition. By changing the follower before too much wear happens that's all that their is to it, but letting it go until you have fuel pressure problems the cam will be damaged. Both gas engines require 505. 01, most readily available is Mobil 0w-40 synthetic. Again not all synthetic oils in this weight pass VW's tests.
I think that's all I have to say, but I have experience with almost every VW engine made and can answer most questions, or find info for you if I can't. Hope this helped.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Thanks KKelley





I decided on the Passat 2013 2. 0L DSG TDI SEL Premium and the dealer actually had several in stock. I spent more than I had originally planned but I see it as a good investment in my daughters’ safety. It’s packed with every amenity imaginable and should last her for many years to come. I was surprised how much power that little diesel put out and I really like the Tiptronic option. Gotta’ love that German engineering.



Thanks all for your advice and comments.

gregg

 

[WCPoe]

Good choice, we're thinking of doing the same.

Thanks KKelley


I decided on the Passat 2013 2. 0L DSG TDI SEL Premium and the dealer actually had several in stock. I spent more than I had originally planned but I see it as a good investment in my daughters’ safety. It’s packed with every amenity imaginable and should last her for many years to come. I was surprised how much power that little diesel put out and I really like the Tiptronic option. Gotta’ love that German engineering.

Thanks all for your advice and comments.
gregg

Please keep us posted on the Passat. We have been considering the same configuration for the wife's everyday driver replacing an aging 1997 Q45. One of our friends opted for the Jetta Sportwagon TDi and it has been a stellar unit but we just couldn't buy into the wagon thing.

 

[Roostre]

We purchased a new 2003 Jetta TDI almost exactly to the day 10 years ago.

It is my wife's primary transportation and she has put about 160,000 miles on it so far. I have done all the maintenance on it myself. Oil changes were using Mobil 1 TDT at every 10K miles after 20K of standard oil changes.

Good:
Clutch is still original and working well. Seems like a slight miracle considering how its driven.
Brakes lasted nearly 100K miles. VW pads are monstrously thick! I almost couldn't believe that they were the correct pads when I replaced them.
Paint and trim have held up well. No real fading. Dash still looks good. Interior also very durable (cloth).
Averages about 42MPG in winter and 45 in summer. Long highway trips average around 53 MPG.
Timing belt was reasonably easy job at 95K miles. Internals and cam looked very good.
Suspension is still all original and works well.

Not so good:
Soot builds up in the intake and EGR system and must be cleaned out about every 60-75K miles. Not a huge issue- it just slowly reduces the power until its unbearable. Last cleaning seemed a little easier. ULSD seems to not harden like the old diesel crust did. It was like scraping a thick paste out.

Glow plug harness or relay has been problematic for a few years. It sets a check engine light. (Not sure why VW tied it into the CEL???) Always starts great and is easily cleared. Just irritating that it comes back so often. Replaced GPs several times, then bought a NEW GP harness, all to no avail. Its not worth the $240 or so bucks VW wants for the GP relay, so we live with it.

Electrical switches in door handles turn on and off intermittently and are a bear to get to and fix. Remote has not worked for a few years.

Front wheel bearings started making noise about 130K. Inexpensive, fairly easy fix.

A/C compressor gave up the ghost at about 145K miles. $$$$

Wife jumped car through deep rain gutter and shattered the aluminum oil pan. Called me when she noticed the oil running out from under it after parking at her destination- towed it home and ordered a steel replacement pan. (This was actually fairly inexpensive thank heaven!!)

Themostat stuck open at about 149K miles. Easy not too expensive fix.


All-in-all it has been the lowest cost per mile vehicle we have ever owned. I bought a motorcycle in 2006 thinking that I could save a few bucks commuting. The TDI actually beats the motorcycle on cost per mile by a long ways. Especially if you factor in tires.

HOWEVER,
If I were not a DIY kind of guy the above could have been a nightmare for some. When a young girl at work asked me about buying a VW I told her that she really should look at Subarus and Hondas. Someone not handy and not diesel savvy may be better off with something they can just drive.

 

[HBarlow]

I love my second hand Sportwagen for my needs and amount I wanted to spend but many participants on the various VW TDI websites speak very highly of the Passat TDI as the premium choice. Apparently it is more plush and refined than the Jettas and Golfs.

Congratulations Gregg. I think you purchased a very nice automobile for your daughter.

 

[S.Morris]

I purchased a 96 TDI Passat used with 50K miles on it from a dealer in 2001. It was in immaculate condition. As part of the purchase agreement I had the dealer do the timing belt service that was required at 55K.

The car was a joy to drive and held the road like only German engineering can, unfortunately it suffered from German electrical system gremlins. The windows would go up and down at will, sometimes staying down (not good in winter lol). It also refused to start several times(turning key to start position produced nothing, the key needed to turn just a slight bit more..... ) I replaced three ignition switches and finally the complete column components that secure switch as well as wiring, at my cost of parts of over 1000. 00. (Should add that this car was primarily driven by my wife... . Not good lol).

In the middle of this electrical fiasco , engine trouble. While I (thank goodness) was sitting at a traffic light..... light turns green, I idle off in 1st and start to accelerate, shift in two second, and while in between 1 and 2 the engine stops. No abnormal noise, hiccups etc. It just stops. Pull up on sidewalk just past intersection. Try to crank(and it actually does) but sounds like no compression WTH? Lift hood and see that the harmonic balancer is laying on the air deflector cover, and that the timing belt cover plastic is broken. Close Hood. Walk across the street to phone booth and call dealer 2 hrs away. I tell service manager what happened (small dealer to brothers, one sales other service man). Having no warranty and car with 20K miles since timing belt replaced, I ask if VW will do anything about this (a 2hr tow to them) or (1/2 hr tow home). He says bring it to dealership.

Long story short on engine... Bolt holding H. balancer on broke off 1/2" inside crank(these cranks are tapered and have a keyway in the taper). They somehow got the broken bolt out (very little room to frame rail) and replaced head (all cam brg caps were broken... . remember this was at an idle. . ) Total cost if I was to pay was over 4K . This was completely covered by VW and dealer, how much from each, I don't know. No complaints, and standup job of making it right, although it did take a month.



Back to electrical... ..... the last straw was car again quit while driving... ..... coast into a parking lot. Try to start... . NO connection at all... . turning key to start position is still not quite far enough to make contact . (This after completely replacing everything in column with new OEM as stated above). Take taxi home... . No one we know is home . LOL. My father meets CAA driver the next day to pickup car... ... . while waiting for truck to back in front to load car, turns key..... car starts right off.



This was the 3rd time we walked with this car in less than a year and that was it. Wife refused to drive car anymore and I did not have time to have this unreliability around. We traded the car on a new Corolla ( which by the way now has 300K miles still on orig clutch and has to date never once let us down once) at a considerable loss after disclosing the electrical issues. Windows still had mind of their own.



Things of note: VW dealership best I have ever dealt with. TDI Passat, worst car I have ever owned. My wife to this day will not even get in a VW and has a comment to make at everyone she see's broken down on the side of the road on her commute!! They may be better now I hope, but SHE will never own one. LOL

Sorry for the long post... ..... brought back memories

 

[HBarlow]

Joe,

I hope not to repeat your experience. I've read on the VW forums of a couple of older cars that had wierd electrical problems like yours did but also of many Golfs and Jettas with 200k and 300k miles on them. Many owners swear by them like we TDR members do with our trucks.

 

[kkelley]

Yeah, the 90's VW's electrical could be a nightmare. They cheaped out on the wiring, and over time the insulation would crack, so wires of different systems may cross and cause all sorts of very hard to diagnose issues. Thankfully on my in-law's 98 Jetta with 170k miles the only thing I've had to fix is the harness to the passenger rear door where it opens and closes.