Was looking at a new truck tonight--need opinions.

[zachv]

Well you can tell by my post count that I am a newbie to this forum, but I have done some research. Mostly on Gen 2 trucks since I figured I was going to have to buy used, but I stopped at a dealer tonight and I may be hooked, but I need help.



I was set to buy the truck, but my wife talked me into "sleping on it" so atleast I have some time to ask you guys about the deal.



It is an '03 SRW 3500 2WD Crew Cab short bed with the 48 auto. It was pretty stripped, without power anything, but they were going to install a hitch and wiring. It will be used for a daily driver and to tow a car trailer with a Jeep on it at maybe 7K lbs. total.



Questions:

What known problems are there with the Gen 3 trucks?

Is there anything I need to know about this truck?

Is it better to do the new truck or get a 24 vale Gen 2--I am mechanical, but need a reliable vehicle with low miles.





They had me all set to sign the papers at $500/month for 60 months with $6K down, so basically I was paying $36K with 6% taxes and tags included. Is that a good deal? The truck listed for $36K.



I truly appreciate any and all help given. I can swing the payment, but it will be a little tight, and I don't want to make a bad purchase.



Just to let ya'll know, I was going to do an '01 2500 4X4 Club Cab short bed with the manual trans. Found one for $23K with 61K miles. Here is a pic:

#ad


What would you do??

 

[JBlock]

If you swing it go new

SO as I see your paying 60 months at $500 and $6000 down, that all. so that includes your interest and evrything out yhe door. So actually buying the truck for about $32000 net present valve. That seem like a reasonible price with licenses and taxes included. I payid $29,5000 for my new 2001 4x4 quad cab plus taxes and licences. And you get a lot more potential truck in the upgrade department and the RE48.



The extra room in the back will be appreciated if you have kids, my boiys 13 and 9 are always complaining and want us to drive the Suburban so they each get seat. But the mileage is a killer with 454.



Anyone else got any thoughts.



JB

 

[RJOL]

Why are you looking at a 3500? If 7K is all your going to pull, you should get by with a lot to spare with a 2500.



Also... Don't know what part of the country your in, but a quick call to Dave Smith Motors can save you a lot of $$$.



Here is their web site: http://www.usautosales.com/



Have fun...

 

[WadePatton]

Dave Ramsey

Look him up, he will tell you how to save money!



Short answer: NEVER buy new, unless you have the CASH to blow.



New car depreciation is what keeps most of middle America in the poor house.



I could go on and on, but I strongly recommend buying a used one. You'll lose much less money.



PLENTY of 2001's and 2002's out there from folks who had to have the latest and don't follow sound financial plans.



Vehicles go down in value, period.



++EDIT++

Hmm, let's see 36,000 less 23,000 is 13,000. Spend 3,000 on BOMB's and leave 10,000 USD in your pocket! how they say--no brainer. Oo.

 

[Shooter]

On a stripped truck the invoice is a little over 4k under list. on a 36k truck the dealer cost would be a little less than 32k. From that subtract any rebates or use 0% financing.



I think the financing for 60 mo is 2. 9%.

invoice on a stripped truck is gong to be a little over 4k under list.

Your 6% tax on 32k is about 1,920$.

32,000 +1920tx= 33920.

33920 - 6000 dn = 27920.

27920 @ 2. 9 /60mo = 500. 45/mo



It seems you are buying the truck at about invoice. You did not say what kind of hitch ( reciever { 150$ }or 5th wheel { 600 - 800 $ } ) was thrown into the deal .



I guess the question is:

Do you want a used noisey truck or a new quiet truck.

I prefer my new quiet truck over my old ( y2k ) noisey truck.



Good luck and have fun.

 

[Fireman]

The third gen. trucks are awesome. Check the other 3G forum for details on rebates and other incentives, now is the best time to buy an'03.



Fireman

 

[Dean Upson]

There have been remarkably few complaints about the G3's. I love mine and everyone that I know that has one feels the same. I have had a 94 12 valve, a 98. 5 24 valve and the'03 is by far the best one yet and others were very good trucks. Sounds like the price is a little high. I would get the 3500 because the suspension and brakes are a bit beefier than on the 2500. You might decide to get into a bigger trailer someday.



Dean

 

[bighammer]

I hope I'm wrong here, but are you negotiating with monthly payment rather than the bottom line? It doen't sound like a bad deal from what I can tell, but salespeople LOVE guys who walk in and say what they can afford every month, and work from there.



Do your homework and find the invoice price for the truck. You should get it at or very near that price.



Go to your bank and find what new car loan rates are. Find how much your payments would be through them. Rates on financing are also negotiable at a dealer. (if they are higher thatn your bank, ask them to match that rate or go through your bank)



ALWAYS be preapared to walk away and think about it. Don't get rushed into it. You aren't obligated to do anything. If you want something different, have them do a search for exactly what you want. It's a long commitment so get what you want.



Look at the build date of the truck. If it's been there a while, they will really want it sold. It sounds like it's stripped to be "a work truck" but with a short bed? It could be some oddball truck that DC sent them that they can't move. I got lucky because mine was built last summer and was at the dealer for almost 8 months. They REALLY wanted to move the truck so I was able to get it at their cost. I got my truck almost $1300 below invoice. (invoice minus holdback)



You might have a similar situation especially with the 04s just around the corner.



Good luck with it

 

[zachv]

I really appreciate the help from everyone.



I like the truck, but I am not in love with it. But I wouldn't be in love with a '01 with 61K and lift pump problems either. It is a toss up.



When we started talking price and payment they came at me with $672 for 60 or $550 for 72 and I almost dropped on the floor, then they came down to $510 for 72, which is in my budget monthly, but that extra year added $6k to what I was going to be paying for the truck. I almost said OK to that, but then realized what I was doing. At that point I said if you can't do the $500 for 60 I have to leave, bearing in mind this was at 10:30PM. The Manager came over and said that he could do the $500 for 60, but without putting on the hitch, bumper mount BTW. I politely said sorry and we decided to part ways. As I was walking out they stopped me at the door and said OK to the deal. I was kind of caught because I made demands that I didn't think they could meet and then when they did I felt obligated. I have been in sales for years and know that I am never really obligated, but they were giving me what I thought was a pretty good deal.



Anyway, yes the truck listed for $36K and change so they must be lowering it pretty good. The only reason I was looking at a 3500 was because up here CTDs are somewhat hard to find. I do not want duals in the rear, need the extended crew cab for the family, and don't really think I need 4WD. We don't get enough snow here in Jersey to mandate it and the wife drives a Jeep Grand Cherokee so it is not like we would be stuck at home.



The way I am looking at it is like this, I could pay them $500 for 60 for a brand new truck that has good reviews, or I could pay $400 for 60 for a used truck because of the 4. 25% finance charge and putting the same $6K down. Basically, I would have $6K more paid for the new one than a used truck. My question, and my wife's, is if the 2WD auto new truck is worth $6K more than a 4WD manual used truck? I am really torn. I drove that thing down the highway last night and it was amazing how it pulled!!



I am torn.

Thanks again for your help and please add any further insight.

 

[Dean Upson]

My question, and my wife's, is if the 2WD auto new truck is worth $6K more than a 4WD manual used truck?

IMO, yes.



Dean

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by Dean Upson

... I would get the 3500 because the suspension and brakes are a bit beefier than on the 2500. You might decide to get into a bigger trailer someday.

FWIW

The only difference is two extra wheels and 1" wider rear brakes. The tow rating is the same unless you get 4. 10's.

 

[zari]

For your research, try Edmund's...

I have bought my last 4-5 vehicles after researching them on Edmund's Web site first; go to <a href="http://www.edmunds.com">http://www.edmunds.com</a>



This will give you invoice, sticker, and something edmunds calls "True Market Value" (TMV) price for the vehicle. I have not paid over TMV ever since...



Alain

 

[LightmanE300]

Zach, first of all, you're dealing in the wrong terms. Don't try to deal your price based on monthly payments, deal based on the total purchase price of the vehicle. Get on kbb.com and find out the invoice price for the exact vehicle and options. Don't forget that dealers get holdback cash, which is equivalent to 3% of the MSRP, after they sell it. So you can buy the truck at invoice/dealer cost, and they still make money. I've found several dealers in this past week that are willing to sell 03's for straight invoice MINUS rebates. They want to move them to make room for '04's. Incentives change after Aug 1, not sure what they'll be. Either way, you shouldn't have to pay over invoice for an 03. Once you find out your invoice price, and get the dealer to agree to it or close, then simply do the math to figure out the payments. Don't do it backwards as your above post suggests. Good luck!

 

[zachv]

That makes sense. What percentage off the sticker should I be able to get, 6% or more?

I think I am going to take the day off tomorrow and go around with my Dad and see where we get. The CTDs are hard to find around here and I know I have to take something off the lot. I am probably going to go check out the used one that posted about also. I was just impressed with the '03's "balls"! Quite a ride.

 

[Dean Upson]

The only difference is two extra wheels and 1" wider rear brakes

I meant the SRW and you get a bit more spring.



Dean

 

[zachv]

OK, the "closer" just called and wanted to know what he could do to get the deal done... I told him I was a little out of my range with the $500. He came back and offered $469/mo for 60 and a price of $31,863 plus t&t of $2277, still putting down $6K. So, at 0% interest I would be financing $28140.



What do ya'll think?? This is driving me nuts.

 

[LightmanE300]

Zach, listen closely, lol. Go to kbb.com or edmunds, and price out the vehicle with the exact options. That will tell you the MSRP and the INVOICE price. Pay the invoice price, not a % off msrp. Tell the dealer look, screw all your prices. I want to pay invoice and not a penny more. Many dealers are offering to sell 03's for invoice minus the $2500 cash back dodge is offering. If they sell you the truck for just INVOICE price, they will make $2500+ the 3% holdback they get from Dodge. Bottom line, do not pay more than invoice. '04's will be here in late August. The truck has effectively depreciated a year. If they tell you no tell them to take a walk. Wouldn't you rather get a truck thats 50 or 100 miles away to save 500 or a thousand bux?

 

[nickleinonen]

Re: Dave Ramsey

i'll agree it is a good idear to buy used, but finding a used vehicle to how you want it optioned is hard. i want a manual 6 speed and HO cummins diesel engine. that is a real rare combo up here in canada [greater toronto area] now especially with the HO avalable with the slush box. i've seen one like that, and it was back last september when the 03's first were appearing on the dealer lots. [oh, and one at the toronto auto show] that's it. every other truck i have seen has the slush box in it [gas or diesel] people that see my 1500 are amazed to find it has a 5 speed manual.

Originally posted by WadePatton

Look him up, he will tell you how to save money!



Short answer: NEVER buy new, unless you have the CASH to blow.



New car depreciation is what keeps most of middle America in the poor house.



I could go on and on, but I strongly recommend buying a used one. You'll lose much less money.



PLENTY of 2001's and 2002's out there from folks who had to have the latest and don't follow sound financial plans.



Vehicles go down in value, period.



++EDIT++

Hmm, let's see 36,000 less 23,000 is 13,000. Spend 3,000 on BOMB's and leave 10,000 USD in your pocket! how they say--no brainer. Oo.

 

[DBVZ]

LightmanE300,



I second your advice 100%. Zack, you need to ignore the MSRP. That is what they put in the window for people who don't know how the system works, and don't have the advantage of the TDR. I ordered mine at under invoice, less the rebates - several thousand less than MSRP. Just as an example, the MSRP on my truck was just over $37k+T&L, and the price I paid was just over $30K+T&L Now that the 2004 are ready to deliver the dealers have to move the stock on the lot, and should deal on the same basis. If you can find the 2003 truck you want on a lot (I couldn't because I wanted a specific set of options) you should be able to get it for dealer INVOICE less rebates. Otherwise, you can wait 8 weeks like I did and get exactly what you want at that price, in a MY2004.



One thought about 2003 vs 2004, if you want to get the automatic, and would ever want to put the E-brake on it, check out the thread from Carlton Bale, Good News - Bad News. The 48re in 2004 will likely be E-brake approved by DC. The 2004 will get a hardware upgrade, and the 2004. 5 will get the final software upgrade (or so the story goes). If that is correct, you could get the 2004 with the 48re, reflash it next January, and add the E-brake without a warranty problem. Just a thought, if you can wait for delivery of a 2004 with exactly what you want on it.

 

[A Johnson]

Zach, as far as the engine goes, I would much prefer the new common rail system over the old VP-44. This comes from the perspective of working on them everyday, although we don't see much of the 03 Dodges in our shop due to they are still under warranty. On the other hand we do the warranty on the ISBe in busses and motor homes and such, and we still don't see any in the shop in comparison to the VP-44 engine. The only ISBes' Ive seen in the shop(2) in the last 3-4 months had EGR problems. So as far as the fuel system is concerned, I like the 03 engine.



Just my opinion from a mechanical perspective.



A Johnson