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Water Fuel !

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looking for a southern cal oil supply

B100 smelling like varnish?

The link you gave us didnt work so I went to www.czabe.com and clicked on video clips then viewed one video and then went to archives to see it.



This guy is near me... its a hydrogen generator. Good stuff but big oil will NEVER allow something like this in the near future. This technology has been around for years.
 
Every time I see something like this in the news, it burns my behind. We have the technology now to, correct me if I am wrong, produce biodiesel on a fairly widespread basis. Yet there are still "mad scientists" out there devising impractical cures for our oil woes. Water, electric, hydrogen, ect. , yet how many millions of gallons of waste vegetable oil are produced every week in America, yet no one wants to get involved and start, what in my opinion would be a HUGE moneymaker. If I had the room, money, and time...
 
THERE IS NO STORED ENERGY IN WATER!! Anyone can turn water into Hydrogen and Oxygen with electrolysis but..... Electrolysis consumes more energy than it produces. Watch the video. The machine takes water, breaks it down, burns it and it turns into water again. Where did the energy come from to have a flame? The machine is plugged in! That is great for welding but to run a car on water alone?? I think we will find out it is a bunch of crap. He may have a electrolysis machine in the car, adding "HHO" to the engine but he will have to run gasoline or have allot of batteries to store enough electricity for electrolysis.





Sorry for the rant but Hydrogen as a "alternative" fuel is a little far off yet.

I'll stick with Biodiesel.



John
 
jwinnie said:
THERE IS NO STORED ENERGY IN WATER!! Anyone can turn water into Hydrogen and Oxygen with electrolysis but..... Electrolysis consumes more energy than it produces. Watch the video. The machine takes water, breaks it down, burns it and it turns into water again. Where did the energy come from to have a flame? The machine is plugged in! That is great for welding but to run a car on water alone?? I think we will find out it is a bunch of crap. He may have a electrolysis machine in the car, adding "HHO" to the engine but he will have to run gasoline or have allot of batteries to store enough electricity for electrolysis.





Sorry for the rant but Hydrogen as a "alternative" fuel is a little far off yet.

I'll stick with Biodiesel.



John



John, I think you should do a little more investigating:



http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22749-2207975,00.html



Hydrogen car jumps gun



Hydrogen fuel cell cars could be on the road much earlier than the decade or more so far predicted. Honda has confirmed it plans a production model “in three to four years”.



The car will be based on the FCX Concept, unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show last year.



The car uses hydrogen to generate electricity that powers a motor. <b>Britain’s first hydrogen filling station opened last year in Hornchurch, Essex, and there is already a fleet of hydrogen buses carrying passengers in London. </b>



Honda engineers are working on a smaller, more efficient fuel cell to increase power and cabin space.



It has also developed a home “energy station” that generates hydrogen from natural gas to allow owners to refuel on their own driveway.
 
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Elite1,

My first reply was directed mostly at Mr. Klein and his "water car". I apologize for getting a little off topic.



As far as vehicles running on hydrogen, we need to step back and look at the bigger picture. There is allot of money and big government behind hydrogen right now. If everyone ran their cars on hydrogen, we would still depend on the big oil and power companies. It takes energy to produce hydrogen. Wether it be from electricity or natural gas and by fueling up at your local hydrogen pump, you are not really conserving energy. The energy conserved by your car has been used up just getting the hydrogen produced and to the pump!

Hydrogen is produced now (this may change in the future) with a loss of energy. There are renewable fuels that can be produced cheaper, safer, use the existing distribution network and with little or no modification to existing vehicles. It's a no brainer for me, of course I would not claim to have much of a brain anyway.



Cheers,

John
 
jwinnie said:
Elite1,

There is allot of money and big government behind hydrogen right now. If everyone ran their cars on hydrogen, we would still depend on the big oil and power companies. It takes energy to produce hydrogen.

John



We will cut Big Oil out of the loop if Nuclear power is used to generate the electricity that makes the hydrogen. If the dopey french get 80% of their electricity from nuclear power there is no reason we shouldn't be doing the same thing.



"Stick it to the man. Go Nuclear!"

Oo. Oo.
 
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As always, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.



Hydrogen generators are nothing new... they have been used in low-pressure stationary applications (such as in laboratories) for dogs years. You pour in water, you plug 'em into the wall, and via electrolysis out comes hydrogen (plus oxygen, which you can either waste or use). This guy's mumbo-jumbo "HHO Gas" is nothing more than the hydrogen gas and oxygen gas streams mixed together (which, of course, burns like a sumbitch when ignited, producing nothing but water).



Since the laws of thermodynamics dictate that no real machine can be 100% efficient (and, in practice, even 50% efficiency can be a stretch), the energy you get from burning the hydrogen plus oxygen is less than the (electrical) energy you consumed to generate them.



H generators are convenient because dealing with high-pressure compressed H cylinders is a huge pain. H under pressure is notorious for leaking through even the tightest gas fittings and valves, so a high-pressure H cylinder doesn't stay pressurized very long.



Although it is hard to judge from the typical crappy tech reporting in the Fox News video, here's what I suspect is going on: This guy has had the (superficially, at least) clever idea of using a hydrogen generator in an H-fueled car, rather than the usual H gas cylinders. On the surface this might sound smart, because one of the greatest problems in developing H-fueled vehicles is that you don't want people driving around in cars containing 3000 PSI H cylinders... it leaks, and when they crash you have mega-bombs (a hydrogen explosion makes a gasoline fire look like a Zippo lighter). But if you restrict the vehicle's H storage to LOW pressure, you can't pack enough H into the vehicle to operate over sufficient distances (at least by American standards). This is H-cars' Catch-22, and a lot of smart people have spent a lot of time trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to address it. This guy is right in that water is a very efficient way to 'store' hydrogen. But he is clueless because it will require a lot of electricity to liberate that hydrogen from the water... thus requiring a lot of batteries onboard... and the less-than-100% efficiency of electrolysis means that what you'll end up with will be, essentially, an electric car that is less efficient than conventional electric cars. Duhhh. Better to just use the electricity directly to power electric motors... more energetically efficient, and fewer parts.



This guy's real accomplishment is that he has breathed new life into an old scam ("fuel your car with water... the amazing power source Big Oil doesn't want you to know about!"). I can't get too upset about him... there's one born every minute... but I am really ticked off by Fox News and others covering this story, who have done zero to present it thoughtfully. It makes for a sensational headline, which is all they care about, so they go with it without asking the most basic questions. Grrrr... .
 
A hydrogen explosion in the atmosphere is a difficult thing to manage, though. So, that really isn't a big concern for hydrogen powered cars. Hydrogen diffuses VERY quickly, especially with normal air flow... hydrogen burns easily... but it doesn't blow up easily.
 
WBusa,



Excellent post. As an old boss of mine used to say, "There ain't no magic here, boys" insofar as hydrogen is concerned. Elemental hydrogen doesn't occur in nature - the hydrogen atom is always bonded to other atoms in a compound such as H20 (water) or CH4 (methane). It takes energy to break this molecular bond and produce pure hydrogen gas (or liquid), and that energy has to come from somewhere. For this reason, most engineers don't think of hydrogen as a "fuel" but rather as an "energy storage medium".



If we want a hydrogen "economy", we'd better start building nuclear or hydro power generating plants to produce the electricity required to produce the elemental hydrogen, and neither are in favor with the environmentalists right now. Heck, even wind power is a no-no since birds fly into the windmills and get killed. :(



Rusty
 
Wikipedia said:
Most of the crew and passengers survived. Of 36 passengers and 61 crew, 13 passengers and 22 crew died. Also killed was one member of the ground crew, Navy Linesman Allen Hagaman. Most deaths did not arise from the fire but were suffered by those who leapt from the burning ship. (The lighter-than-air fire burned overhead. ) Those passengers who rode the ship on its gentle descent to the ground escaped unharmed. What should also be noted is that almost double the number of casualties occurred when the helium filled USS Akron crashed.
That subtlety may have been lost of those that died... but I'm sure it was not lost on the nearly twice as many people that survived the Hindenburg fire. :)
 
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