Water injection ?'s

[Stranger]

Does anyone run a waterinjection set-up on a regular basis for towing? Did some mods to my truck and now it's WAY quick towing over mts but, and this is a big but, (almost as big as mine #ad
), the EGTs were way high. Higher than I'd care to tell #ad
.

Been told that a water injection will cool it down but I'd like some input as to what type of flow I should aim for. Thinking of getting a 25 gal tank with a 12v pump. This pump has a 1gpm open flow with between 45 - 60 psi. 3/8" line from pump to the Fed. air horn but I'd start bushing it down to a 1/8" line, then connect the 1/8" to a sprintcar nozzle to atomize the water before it gets to the intake.

Is the nozzle necessary, or am I overthinking this? The way I'm thinking is to use the smallest line possible to get the EGT's down, and I'll still have the ability to run it up to 3/8" if needed.

Any thoughts?

TIA.
Stranger.

------------------
'96 3500 slammed (2/4drop) Piped, EGT and boost. Alloys X4.
Driftwood
Stock? so far
36'14K triple slide 5'er

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Stranger,

A member here "DieselB59" has a homemade water injection system. I don't know that much about it. I know he said it was expensive to make.

 

[Smoker]

Back to the top. Who does run one that can give some info? My major concern is psi for the pump. I talked to one tractor puller who said you would need a 100psi pump and then I found a gasser I-net site for a homemade system that said 45psi would be enough? I'm stumped.
Water injection will require a nozzle. I have been told that a fuel injector out of something like a Mustang would work. However, these clip in and I think it would be hard to get a good seal so that you didn't lose boost.
For some info go to: http://www.dawesdevices.com/water.html

 

[Bart Timothy]

If you wish to inject post-turbo, Spearco has a system with a storage tank which is pressurized by the turbo so that even a windshield washer pump will inject enough water. Aquamist has nice looking systems, but are pricey. Dee Rawson has built a system which injects the water pre-turbo. There's probably enough of a venturi effect right at the turbo silencer ring where no pump would be needed.

 

[Smoker]

I have heard that when you inject pre-turbo, the fins on the prop shaft can start to wear after so much use of the system. Think about it. The shaft turns many rpm's and when droplets of water hit the fins, it has to be hard on it. It would be a lesser version of throwing a brick into a box fan in my opinion.

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

I to have mulled this over numerous times. There seems to be no cut and dry answer to what we need. I had a system going pre turbo and was told the same thing that is was very bad and will cause blade errosion in time.
I found that there are two kinds of systems one right after the turbo and one using a nozzle to inject in the manifold. Both inject water to kill egts, but at the cost of some power. There is another way to not loose power and that is by making it a 50/50 blend of alcohal and water, any more doesn't do any good and can cause detonation. But even at the 50/50 level its said to add as much as 35 hp depending on the volume. In any case you have to overcome the boost pressure so I found a 100psi 12v pump used on JD agriculture sprayers for 160 bucks. It has a high enough valume for what we need and the pressure to overcome the boost. As far as orfice size, I'm going to use an adjustable valve to do that. On the tractors for pulling they use a "spinner" to attimise the water. That is the only part I have not been able to figure out completely. It needs to be attimised to be delivered evenly between cylinders but it can not be to small or to large. If you figure this part out let me know. fyi there is a point that comes easily in our motors that you can not control egts so we need water to do that. good luck. #ad


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96 4x4, 3. 54 posi, 6. 5"lift, 35" bfg m/t's and 35x14. 5x16. 5 boggers,dual stabalizers, aluminium wheels, sport headlights,billet grill, K/N 0880, NOS, Performance Diesel LPG, BD Pulling/Competition fuel injection pump,370hp marine injectors, ported head, Hx40 w/ 16cm2, 4" exhaust w/ 2 chamber Flomaster, BD copetition auto transmission and torque converter, Kenwood sterio System, Westach 60lb boost/ egt guage with warning light,aluminium bed rail covers,chrome diff covers, 5 foot traction bars,
475hp and 1050lb of torque on #2
530hp and 1140 with bullydog lpg maxed(only 55hp)
590hp and 1200 with lpg and nos
all done in 5th gear with 35's.
have a great day.
Adam

 

[Smoker]

Adam,
I would be careful about injecting before the intercooler. A system like that could lead to water build-up in the cooler. I talked to a tractor puller who said it would be best to put the water nozzle right after the cooler. This would mean drilling a hole in the metal pipe between the cooler and intake and putting the water nozzle there. He said that with the temp of the charged air and the boost that the water would vaporize good enough. He ran an IH tractor with 130psi boost and 1300Hp. He said he never ran egt's over 13-1400deg.

 

[Stranger]

Well, we are getting the old brain pan temps up #ad
.
Smoker, My6 - I tend to agree with the theory of pre-turbo injection causing unrecoverable wear on the turbo blades. If you put water under enough pressure it can cut steel or stone. So with the droplets hitting a highly spinning turbo, well, things would tend to get very ugly and spendy quick.
Smoker - I agree with injecting after the cooler, mostly due to the water would probably condense inside the cooler and not get where it's needed. Although it might get there in one big gulp, which would not be so good either. I'm leaning towards using the air horn after the last rubber connection mostly due to the larger amount of material to tap into, this part warms with the rest of the engine and there is a 90 degree turn in the airpath which will help in keeping the water or water/alcohol in suspension and then the grid heaters will help break the droplets up.
My 6 - do you have a part number for the JD pump? Do you feel the low pressure low of 45psi from the pump I'm looking at is not sufficient to over come the boost pressure. Also, instead of a "spinner" (?) I have access to sprintcar fuel injector nozzles that are designed to atomize alcohol. I was thinking about using one or, if need be, two of these.
PS. Thanks again Adam, for laying your healing hands on my engine.

------------------
'96 3500 slammed (2/4drop) Piped, EGT and boost. Alloys X4.
Driftwood
Stock? sort of #ad
.
36'14K triple slide 5'er

[This message has been edited by Stranger (edited 04-18-2001). ]

 

[grtescpa]

Originally posted by Stranger:
Does anyone run a waterinjection set-up on a regular basis for towing? Did some mods to my truck and now it's WAY quick towing over mts but, and this is a big but, (almost as big as mine #ad
), the EGTs were way high. Higher than I'd care to tell #ad
.

Been told that a water injection will cool it down but I'd like some input as to what type of flow I should aim for. Thinking of getting a 25 gal tank with a 12v pump. This pump has a 1gpm open flow with between 45 - 60 psi. 3/8" line from pump to the Fed. air horn but I'd start bushing it down to a 1/8" line, then connect the 1/8" to a sprintcar nozzle to atomize the water before it gets to the intake.

Is the nozzle necessary, or am I overthinking this? The way I'm thinking is to use the smallest line possible to get the EGT's down, and I'll still have the ability to run it up to 3/8" if needed.

Any thoughts?

TIA.
Stranger.

I don't know if this will help but if Edlebrock is still in business they might have a kit ready made for diesels. I bought a water injection kit made by them from a speed shop many years ago. Had it in an old Olds98 with 455 cu V8. You add a little methonal to the water to help it vaporize the water. Let me tell you I can still feel the G force from it!
Bill

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

So Stranger how did that thing pull that bigol 5er?
I think you guys are on the right track for sure, I'm going to end up using Nos injectors in the manifold, prolly on the underside #ad
for stealth.
The pump was one they had to look up when I was there so I don't have the part #. I deffinetly would run at least 100 psi for attomization.

 

[R.ebel]

Has anybody tried spraying or misting the charge-air cooler externally with water/alcohol mix? Would it help lower egt's appreciably?

 

[Stranger]

We went to San Jose last weekend. Over the Altamont at 70+ in OD! Went over the Sunol grade in 3rd at 65 but that's when the EGT's were scary. (I screwed up and punched off the OD at the bottom and couldn't get it back until the top. )
I've opened the bottom of the airbox and I'm probably gonna open up one of the sides too. It really likes AIR now! #ad
.
It tries to lift the front tires when in a hard launch with no power braking. Don't wanna power brake because I can't afford rear tires yet. I know it will fry 'em. Can't wait to go up against my cousin's DuraRock. Thanks again.

------------------
'96 3500 slammed (2/4drop) Piped, EGT and boost. Alloys X4.
Driftwood
Stock? sort of .
36'14K triple slide 5'er

 

[Stranger]

R. ebel - I wouldn't want to risk externally misting alcohol. Might raise my own Alcohol Level #ad
. Might try just water though. I usually like my alcohol straight anyway #ad
.

------------------
'96 3500 slammed (2/4drop) Piped, EGT and boost. Alloys X4.
Driftwood
Stock? sort of .
36'14K triple slide 5'er

 

[Smoker]

Adam,
I too thought about using a NOS nozzle. You probably could use it since you have nitrous. I, however, have been told by NOS and others that water wouldn't work well in their nozzles. I was told that you must have the pressure of the nitrous in order to make the fuel spray work correctly. NOS did not recommend running water thru their nozzles but they gave no reason. Also, have you checked for clearance to mount the nozzle so that it will be hidden? I looked when I thought about doing it that way. Looked pretty tight.
Stranger,
The air horn would most likely be the best bet because of ease of install and thicker material.
Rebel,
External spray might benefit those of you that are drag racing and towing. For pulling, it would be just about useless. The way I see it, it would just about be useless in any application. Water injected IN the motor creates power anyway.

 

[R.ebel]

Smoker1,
All I'd like to do is take some of the edge off of my exhaust temps. I'm at 6000ft and have been battling the egt's for a while.

 

[n_fairchild]

What about using a very small stainless steel sprayer nozzle, mabey a cone pattern, or nozzle used for misting the soln. (such as an orchard sprayer might use?) Also what about using an automatic control such as what the propane injection systems use. Just some thoughts.
Nick

------------------
95 3/4 ton, 4x4, Auto, 235 plate, K&N, straight through exhaust, wastgate mods, more to come, 108,000mi and still going strong

 

[Smoker]

Rebel,
It probably would knock off a few egt's but not as many as it would if you injected it. You really have to try it before you'll know. I haven't heard too much about the external set-up.
Nick,
The automatic set-up can be done. NOS sells an adjustable 7-30psi pressure switch on their website. Once boost pressure gets so high, the switch activates and turns the pump on. I have also been told that an electric solenoid valve might be needed to keep water from freeflowing when system is not in use. I have already bought a solenoid valve for this but have not got around to putting the whole water injection system together yet. I'm still trying to find a good nozzle.

 

[Bad340fish]

What about Misting NOS or something similiar on the Intercooler. It would make the IC VERY cold and of course in turn lower your Intake Temps. Gotta find something cheaper than NOS though
Clark

 

[Smoker]

Clark,
I believe that water would still be the best bet for external spray. It's a WHOLE lot cheaper than nitrous. Not to mention the fact that it would take a considerable amount of nitrous to cover our fairly large intercoolers for any long or extended run. One thing I saw a drag racer do with a turbo gasser was to make a tray that air would pass through. The tray went in front of the cooler. He would fill the tray up with ice before each run. Naturally, this would only be for racing or pulling. I still would have to lean toward injecting the water. With injection, you're actually mixing with the fuel and cooling the egt's in the motor where they are the highest.

 

[Bart Timothy]

The Aquamist system has many of the features you guys are talking about and then some. It even has computer control, for precise metering, avialable in the upper end models. Be prepared to spend the bucks though. Prices start at over $400 and go up fast. I'd just like to get my hands on that pump it uses.