Water Injection

[Jim Fulmer]

Seems after talking about what I've done with this some of you still wonder how good it will work, well I have some new data for the lower H. P guys.



Truck in question, 97' 5 Speed Dually with 185K on the clock, specs... #10 equivalent plate, 3K's from Piers, Stock DV's, Stock Injectors... STOCK turbo with a 16 housing from Piers, 4 inch Exhaust, Timing bump and Snow Performance Stage 2 Water Injection, and a Southbend Clutch. At the start some 2 months ago the truck was at 170/351 and was set as a baseline, with the above mods and my tuning, power is at 375/901, EGT's on the dyno were 1600 and boost was 35 on the road EGT's were real high(should have seen it with the 12 housing ) now for the water on, EGT's on the road were 1450-1475 at 110 MPH, on the dyno they were 1400 boost at 40 psi... . now the power, Matt Snows kit made 70 hp and 110 ft/lbs using a 50/50 mix of Water/Methanol that pushed the power to 446/1008. Thanks to Matt for the system and Chuck at Alternative Motor Sports in OKC for both the truck and the dyno to test and tune at



Jim

 

[CumminFast]

Is this water injection used all the time or just when you are dynoing or racing?

 

[Deezul1]

Jim

can you give an opinion on the threat to the head gasket on the test truck? I like the sound of this setup and am a little worried about pushing my setup into the threatened head gasket area.

Thanks

John

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Is this water injection used all the time or just when you are dynoing or racing?



How do you want it done... . it has an on/off switch in the cab and can be controlled via a boost control to come on at a preset pressure then on at full volume at another, I'd like to see someone put a setup running straight water on a towing truck... . your in the hills and EGT's are high cause you want to tow at 75-80 MPH and pass everyone (sorry got that one from Piers) it will knock out 200-250 degrees.



John, I have his timing about like yours, Methanol does add timing as the motor sees it... . keep this in mind, I was adding lots of water/meth with the 60-65 psi of boost and that is what took my 100K stock head gasket out..... remember when I wrote about that!



Just incase you'll don't know I have been running this for 6 months now with a setup I built, I now have Matt's setup that allows me to use less water (1/2 as much) as what I had with the same results, The nozzles and pump he uses are really nice.



Jim

 

[drice]

ok ok I'll bite how much does this setup cost (if you can tell us). I've been toying with the idea since the last lstdr meet but been kinda scared to do it. but it sounds like you've done your homework (as usual).

 

[Sticks]

I checked out this guys site from another thread (that I can't remember) and the $$$ was between $300-$400. Considering the going rate for HP is about $10 per ($100 = 10HP), the price was a he!! of a bargain at what they claim for performance improvements. I am in the process of setting up for towing, and am seriously thinking of this setup for straight water injection, since I live in Colorado, and mountain driving is a given for my choice of destinations. Head gasket failure is my only concern.



Jim, 02 ETH/DEE with stage 2 injectors, EZ, AFE cannon, and straight piped OEM. Would I need to worry about boost pressures with the injection?



Can this set up be worked to come on when EGT's hit, say, 1250, and stay on until it drops to 950? What would be the best setup for mountain/heavy towing?

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Sticks, I would talk to Matt about using straight water in that setup while your towing, as far as I know he doesn't have and EGT setup but is looking into it as he has already got requests for it. On his controller you can set a start psi boost and a full on psi with two different dials, after that you could either change nozzles that takes about 5 Mins or change the pump pressure that takes about 1 Min. I'm not the system expert here Matt is and has had these kits on the road for over two years, running them on Diesel's is new to him that's why I give him the data, people have been running water injection on Diesel's for what 25 years that I know of and have been around.





Dan, I always do my homework before I shoot my mouth off, that's why I wanted hard numbers so there was no question. His site is www.snowperformance.net if you call you might get his voice mail as he has a real job too, he good about returning calls and E-mails.



Jim

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Congrats

Good job Jim. Glad to hear there is someone out there that is willing to try it on a Dodge. My simple setup on my DT 466 IH engine works very similar to the results you are getting. I am at 100% methanol but my compression ratio is quite low, 15 to 1. I am sure that a higher ratio will give you more timing and the possibility of slight detioation. A old southerner clamed that 200 proof (poof) grain alcohol is the best for the diesels. However I am not ready to try stillin corn. Maybe in another life.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Hey how is it going, I came across Matt Snow via PDR and really like the nozzles and pump he uses, much better that what I had that we talked about... . really good atomization. If all goes well I'll pull out of here on Sat. headed for PDR/DTT country say about Thursday so I can play on the dyno with the NW bunch.



Later, Jim

 

[Hammer]

Jim. .

I have one question and its one Proram and I discussed last week while chatting about you and your setup(hope your ears weren't ringing) and its this.....



With how explosive and volatile methanol can be,even diluted with water,what will happen if the intake grid heater screens stick or come on accident?. Do you put them on a remote switch to kill all power to them after starting the truck?.



BTW. . Methanol doe not add timing,but,does add to efficiency of burning the way over fueled instances these trucks run. One thing around here that I'd worry about is the methanol. Seems like some of our pro-street contingent runs it in their blower cars and have the locals on the look out for it. BIG TIME citations follow its use on the street as its not a approved fuel.



I'd would like to chat with you about it though sometime,it sounds intriguing for shows... ..... Andy

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Andy to tell you the truth I've never thought about the grid heaters... interesting.



On the timing I guess what I meant was it made the motor think there was more timing..... I may be way off here but I understand what you saying about the burn.



Is windshield washer fluid illegal... . it works too it's just not as strong.



I did some testing today but just a bit on my truck, power was down just a tad from Chucks dually but TQ was way over, I made 52/163 on a 50% mix..... I was testing three nozzles but I don't really like it, I think the two are fine as long as you are moving allot of air or that air from a single is hot... . over fueled. I do like the dual nozzle setup better than the single as you can tune it to the right amount... . here comes that nice pump of Matt Snow's again... unlike mine... I'll fix that soon. I do notice that if you are underfueled like you can clean up the smoke but your EGT are hot it works the best. Way back when I had my stock pump I gained 7 MPH on water/meth in the quarter... . 107 to 114... and gained 4 tenth's in time that's allot of power to me.



Jim

 

[Hammer]

Jim. .

The alcohol in windshield washer fluid is not methanol. 2 different animals completely,but,I can understand why they both work.



Anytime you can inject a fuel that will help facilitate a cleaner burn certainly it will add to your HP/TQ levels,but,it is not at times without a price(as you all ready noted in a gasket demise). I myself have launched a set of Dominators and hood scoop to near record heights when a nitrous solenoid failed on a pro-street car I once owned. HP sought does not come without consequences and I agree on that with you.



Anyway,Nice job and great follow ups on it. May have to chat with you about it sometime... ... . Andy

 

[Jim Fulmer]

The alcohol in windshield washer fluid is not methanol



Andy, I was told to get only washer fuild that said..... contains methanol... . that's what I was going by, I did look for MSDS sheet on the net and found out how much was in there.



Freakin' Jet Pilot keeps telling me he'll hook me up with N20 for my truck..... and I won't answer him



Jim



P. S. my number is in the PM stuff.

 

[Hammer]

Jim. .

Do you need a spy shot of the "World Famous Drug Tuner" at his best. Rumors have it that he is as of now "tuning" a couple of other members trucks with NOS to educate Gene on how to make HP. Proram and I are goping to spy on them now . Tune you all in later... ... ... . Andy

 

[Sled Puller]

No thanks, I've been winning this year without drugs.



Has JP won ANYthHING yet in 03?



Always have water injection on the back burner though... ... .

 

[therabbittree]

mummn around here guys run methanol on teh street and no body bothers them . . heck if any body would get bothered it would be by the dual 4. 5" exhaust those guys run ha and street racing or speeding. . i've never seen a cop stick a automobiles gas tank. . heck only seen a dot cop do my truck once checking for off road fuel..... any way methanol is cleaning then gasoline any what its even listed as a alternative fuel . . main problem is it takes twice as much methanol as gasoline... and water is absorbed into it , and its corrosive to aluminum... . ha heck we got guys making bio diesel and veggie oil diesl around here and they aren't "approved" and no porblems. . i think most of th e"approved part is no road tax is paid for when its used... any how

thanks

deo

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Update... . Did back to back runs at Piers's Dyno day in valet mode, that is the best results hands down..... lots of air and lower power level will always show more power as will an over worked system because it cools so we'll.



Valet mode with stock fuel system was 443. 5 HP



Valet mode with stock fuel system and water/methanol 50/50 mix was 567. 4... . 124 hp gain... . I was thinking it would do 100 HP.



Full fuel / aux fuel on / water/methanol on final HP was 644. 0



All runs were in DIRECT with the converter locked not overdrive.



Jim

 

[Sticks]

:--) I WANT! :--)

 

[MMeier]

Any torque #'s to go with those HP #'s, Mr. Jimmy??

 

[jrandol]

Originally posted by sticks

:--) I WANT! :--)

Im with Sticks!!!!



:--) :--)