Welding to the frame

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Howdy gang,
I am about to get a goose neck hitch installed in the bed of my ’99 2500 and I am hearing different things from some of the people in my area that do the installs. Several of them are telling me that they are going to weld a plate to the frame of my truck and then mount the ball to this plate. This idea sounds fine to me except for one thing, one of the places that I have talked to has said that they are going to bolt the plate on so that it “does not void the warranty”. I know that there have been many posts about what will and what will not void the warranty, but I have not found one on this topic.
I feel that welding the hitch to the frame is a better option strength wise than bolting it on, and it would seem that if any warranty was voided then it would only be the warranty on the frame. Is this accurate?

Thanks for any advice




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'99 QC 2500 2wd 24v Auto
3. 55 LSD SB

 

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Forget about the warranty, the important thing is , the welding on the frame weakens it and it will bend/break easier. Based on 20 years in 18 wheelers. .

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99QC,5sp,3. 54,stock,24,500 miles-11-25-99--EX phord owner

 

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Bob's right. Don't weld it. The maintenance manual is very specific about that. AND if/when you/they drill make sure it's only in the "web" or center of the frame beam at least 1. 5 inches from the top or bottom of the beam (yes, I know, DC has several holes that appear to be only 1" away but those are their holes and if the frame cracks, you're going to get a new truck. If it's your hole, you get nothing).

Finally: DO NOT EVER ALLOW ANYONE TO DRILL ANYTHING OF ANY SIZE IN THE TOP OR BOTTOM FRAME FLANGES.

Ron.

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'00 2500, 4x4, QC, Cummins ETC/6spd, 3. 54, Camper, Trailer, SLT, 4ABS, BD E-brake, Pullrite 20. 5K 5th hitch, Tekonsha Envoy-SX Tbrake, Flame Red/Silver, Agate

 

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Bob & Ron are correct in that welding and drilling in the wrong place can screw up your warranty. If you have ever read the warnings sold with hitches you will see that they forbid welding and drilling because it changes the strength and properties of the metal and the same goes for frames.

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99 2500, QC, SLT, 4x4 ISB, 5sp, 3. 55sld, Infiniti am/fm/cd, HDTcase, NW Running Boards and Mud flaps, Draw-Tite Front Mount Receiver Hitch, Tekonsha Brake Control, SRW and Husky Liners.

 

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As a mechanical engineer, I beg you NOT to WELD to your truck's FRAME. It ain't the thing to do. Use Hot rolled angle from the web of your frame up to the underside of the bed as hitch mounting brackets. Then bolt the hitch from in the bed through and hit your hot rolled angle.
Use Grade 8 bolts, Loctite 242, flat and lockwashers and you will be set.

Brent

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1995 Ram 2500 4x4, 3. 54, 5 spd, SLT, No muffler

 

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mike1, I went through the same thing back in "95". I knew I didn't want a hitch that bolted to the bottom of the bed so here's what I did, and Bob-TEXAS is right, don't weld on the frame. At that time I worked with API cetified welders who welded on 1000 lb. plus pressure natural gas lines for a living. I has my foreman weld up a piece of 2x3x3/8 angle iron on each side of a piece of 1"plate that was about 30"x10". The 30" length may be wrong, it was long enough to reach the outside of the frame with the angle welded on. I went to the local trailer supply and had them order the best long shank 2 5/16 ball avaliable; rated at 35,000 lbs.

This is where I had my major concern, I unbolted the bed blocked it up and placed the plate over the frame with the center of the plate about 5" or so ahead of the center line of the axle, then drilled 3, 1/2" holes through the frame on each side, and bolted it together using 7/16th, grade 8 bolts and nylock grade 8 nuts with flat washers. I don't recall if I used a torque wrench, but I tightened them way tight. And checked them often for the first year or so. They never loosened up.

After attaching the plate to the frame, I reattached the bed and after a lot of carefull measuring, using a hole saw, cut a 1 1/2" hole in the bed over the center of the plate. I had already cut a hole it the 1". Painted the edges of the new hole, installed the ball, tighented the devil out of it, and put a good tack on the 1 1/4" nut to plate. It takes a 6' cheater to break it loose now, but it't never worked loose. I was under the TRUCK TRUCK (not a car-truck like some) a few days ago, checked everything, no frame cracks, everything tight.

However, I did find cracks in the factory receiver hitch from the back bolt hole to the back edge on both sides. I removed the hitch and using 2 sections of 2x6x1/4" flat stock, welded in reinforcements on each side. Hope this helps.

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"95" 3500, 4WHD, Ext cab. SLT, 5 spd, 4. 10 LSD, PacBrake, running boards, Mopar mud flaps, 35000 LB. gooseneck ball on home engineered attachment system, , pulling a 6,000 lb. three axle backhoe trailer, hauling a 14,000 lb. hoe,or a 6,300 lb. King 4 horse inline trailer (total loaded weight; 11,300)

1970 340 Duster, 4 spd, 3. 55's, 1968,318 factory air Barricuda convertable. .

 

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You guys are making me uneasy!!!!!!!
I have a '93 with 125k miles. A minimum if 25k miles has been towing a 11K pounds fiver. When the truck was new (with in the first 500 miles I welded fifth wheel hitch brackets to the frame (both sides) and drilled holes through the top flange for other bolts. I drive a lot on secondary roads and unpaved roads where there is lots of vibration. Have I just been lucky or is the problem more hypothetical than real??

Vaughn

 

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Many if not most 18 wheelers in the scrap yard that I've gotten parts off have had broke/bent frames. The welding heats up the metal and deteriates the tensil strength of the metal, not at the weld but 1/8 inch from it. DO NOT WELD TO FRAMES or other high tensil strength metal. You may be lucky or MAYBE the welder is one of . 05% that really can weld without doing damage. I'm not taking that chance, also I'm a welder too.

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99QC,5sp,3. 54,stock,24,500 miles-11-25-99--EX phord owner

 

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As for the caution against drilling the flanges, this is real. Over 80% of the structural strength of your frame member is located in the flange and the first inch of the web. In general, the top flange is in compression and the bottom one is in tension (this reverses somewhat around the axle attach points). These forces diminish as you move toward the centerline of the beam at which point it reaches zero. That’ s why it’s OK to drill in the center 2" to 4" of the web.

Now in the real world, these frames are pretty beefy and overbuilt and there are probably a few locations where drilling the flange “might” be OK. But there are many more locations where it could be disastrous (like on the bottom flange, midway between the axles). Since I don’t know were these spots are, the best bet is DON’T do it. If you have, inspect these areas often for cracks. Maybe you'll never have a problem.
Ron.


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'00 2500, 4x4, QC, Cummins ETC/6spd, 3. 54, Camper, Trailer, SLT, 4ABS, BD E-brake, Pullrite 20. 5K 5th hitch, Tekonsha Envoy-SX Tbrake, Flame Red/Silver, Agate

 

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I'm with TEXAS, never weld anything to your frame! Check with DC before drilling! I wash big trucks for a living and have yet to come across a tractor that does not have a warning label on the frame. WARNING! DO NOT WELD OR DRILL HOLES IN FRAME. CONSULT FREIGHTLINER REF. M31... or something like that. If you ever have a chance take a close look at the 5th wheel plate on a big truck. You will see that it is bolted to the frame. In my days as a dispatcher I have had many drivers mount their own plates to save a few bucks, but in the end they always pay dearly.

 

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Don't weld on the frame!! I have been in the mediun and heavy duty truck business for 30 years and can tell some horror stories about welding the frames on trucks. Don't do it!!!

When having the fifth wheel hitch installed on my new trucks, the first thing I ask is do you weld or bolt it on? If they say weld, I'm out of there!!!

Bill

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97 3500CC,Auto,4. 10LSD,All Options incl Leather,Pyro,Boost,Trans. Temp Gauges, PacBrake, 3 pos TC Lockup Switch, RPM 40Gal. Aux. Fuel Tank, Reese 20K Hitch, Highway Products Tool Box, 80% Towing 12,100lb. HitchhikerII 5'er. 2000 3500QC 6 Speed,4. 10LSD,SLT+ on Order since 9-23-99,"D-1" Order Status, St. Louis Plant, Ship Date: 11-30-99, As of 12-1 built, painted,installing trim,will ship today

 

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Here is a web site of one of the neatest hitches on the market www.turnoverball.com I have a similar hitch that I built myself and they now have a fifth wheel adapter to fit it also a bit pricey but easy to remove.

 

[Archive]

Here is a web site of one of the neatest hitches on the market www.turnoverball.com I have a similar hitch that I built myself and they now have a fifth wheel adapter to fit it also a bit pricey but easy to remove. Hitch bolts to orignal holes in frame and they say bed does not have to be removed

 

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I'm having a gooseneck hitch mounted soon. It is similar to the turnover , only it screws in from the top. Screw it out and there is a 2" hole. A bolt with most of the head cut off will screw in and make a level bed for hauling stuff. Local trailer outfitter , puts it in for $225. Calls it the standard goooseneck hitch. Mounts exactly like the pic for the turnoverball, all bolts no welding, and uses the holes predrilled from dodge.

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99QC,5sp,3. 54,stock,24,500 miles-11-25-99--EX phord owner
15-16. 5 MPG hwy ,14-15 city , 10-12 with 4,000lb TT

 

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Please don't weld to the frame. Trucks have a strong tendency to make abrupt U-turns in the middle when one frame rail severs or breaks abruptly. Been there, don't want to go back!!
BTW, I ordered my turnoverball hitch today after talking to several people.

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98. 5 3500 QC No Mods yet but another week of reading the posts and I'll be forced to do something.

 

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Well, nobody really go their point across well, but I would say DON"T WELD!!!!! Maybe you got that from some other posts. Anhow, that said, the new generation of submersible balls have a mounting kit that is designed for your truck. It runs about 135. 00. Tis would be about the same as the labor rate to make one out of angle iron at a good shop. It is designed per truck, LB or SB and bolst into some existing holes witha couple others to drill. What is nice is it takes the guess work out of where to cut the hole in the bed and the proper placement of the ball assembly.
As for fifth whell assemblies, most come with brackets(angles with a lotta holes), that bolt to the frame. real easy if you remove the rear wheel well guards. Installation should be the same cost per each type of hitch.
I recommend Reese for fitfh wheels and Hidden hitch for submersible balls(buyer Corp. )



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96 Long bed EC, Banks Twin Ram, BD TC, BD EB, BD VB, Mag Hytec Pans, Warn 8000# winch, TJM Bull Bar, Speedliner, Katzkin Leather kit, K&N Filter, Trailmaster 2" Lift, 35BFG ATKO's, Kodiak Sidewinder Steps, Reflexion Cowl Hood, Autometer Guages, Horton Clutch Fan, PIAA Superwhites.

 

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Thanks for all the advice everyone. I knew that I could get the best answers here! Several of the posts have mentioned hitches that use pre-existing holes to mount the hitch. I looked at the frame rails under my truck and I don't see any holes that are already there that are not already being used. I will be sure that the hitch gets bolted to the truck, but I am concerned that it will be ok to drill three 1/2" holes in the center of the web of the frame on each side? Is it ok to drill holes in the frame, and are six 1/2" bolts enough to bolt the hitch on?

Thanks again!!
Mike

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'99 QC 2500 SLT 2wd 24v Auto 3. 55 LSD SB

 

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Page 13-7 of the Y2K Ram maintenance manual under "Frame Repairs", "Drilling holes" says,

"Do not drill holes in frame side rail top and bottom flanges, metal fatigue can result causing frame failure. Holes drilled in the side of the frame rail must be at least 38 mm (1. 5 in) from the top and bottom flanges.
Additional drill holes should be located away from existing holes. "

You should be OK.
Ron.

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'00 2500, 4x4, QC, Cummins ETC/6spd, 3. 54, Camper, Trailer, SLT, 4ABS, BD E-brake, Pullrite 20. 5K 5th hitch, Tekonsha Envoy-SX Tbrake, Flame Red/Silver, Agate