Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) WG setup for Twins

[Jerred]

I have been running my twins for a few months now, including a 4600 mile move to Alaska with a 13. 5k# travel trailer in tow. They work fine, but...



Top= Bell Turbo USB#4 custom, by Pius Erbele

Bottom= BHT3B, PDR modified with 26cm housing

WG= Tial 38mm with 1bar spring between the manifold and the hot pipe.

note: I custom fabed all the plumbing myself. I had to remove the WG from the USB and block the WG valves with a plate and two bolts. I have the 1bar spring in the Tial WG and a regulator plumbed in to the bottom of the spring to take boost air from the top turbo outlet to be able to adjust when the WG dumps.



I can make 70# plus with h2o meth, no sweat, a little laggy, but not bad for twins. I have both the manifold and the cold pipe in between the two turbos plumbed with a boost guage. At 50psi of manifold boost, the boost guage for the lower turbo reads about 15 psi. That's at a constant 50psi at the manifold and both pressures are constant. I had tried a . 5 bar spring and was getting almost 35psi of boost from the lower turbo at 65psi at the manifold which seemed too high, and very laggy. Running on the dyno, it was like a coal fired train until the HT3B spooled. When I put in the 1bar spring, it got better, but I don't think the bottom turbo is doing enough work. If I open the regulator to put some air under the spring and open it sooner, it just gets more laggy, not letting the USB spool enough to get off the line. I'm thinking I need to combine the two springs to hold the WG closed hard, and then adjust the regulated air to the bottom of the WG spring to open it when the USB is pushing about 20psi, and then dump the rest of the exh air while keeping the USB spooled at a constant 20psi or so, but I don't know how to control that since I can't measure the USB's output.



Anyone with a similar setup have any ideas? Unfortunately, I live on an Island in Alaska and don't have access to a dyno, unless I hop the ferry to Anchorage!!

 

[thekidfan]

Anyone with a similar setup have any ideas? Unfortunately, I live on an Island in Alaska and don't have access to a dyno, unless I hop the ferry to Anchorage!!

HEY, you are the one that chose to move up there I didn't force you away, or did I... ..... staying just out of reach on my rollrs of choice We had one just up the road you could use it, well if I wasn't! :-laf Good luck bud great to see you all are ok, I had been calling till Ken said he had heard from ya!

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Your now learning the difference between the road and the dyno, I run the total boost to 40-50 psi then open the gate to the bottom turbo to hit it hard. This idea seems to work best on the dyno! The guys that run at the track might have a little different idea.



That top turbo is not small, so use it! Then when it starts to fall out bring the big turbo on... . like now! The PDR 3B's are well worth the money(extra) over the stockers. I started out with one and still support them!



Yea your going to hear me say this... ... a 3B is not the under dog on the dyno.



Jim

 

[Stomp]

Hey Jarred how do you like those traction bars that Ponci made for you? He is going to build me a set here in the next week or so. Sorry I didnt make it down to say hi when you were in town.



Hey Jim I dont run an external gate, I only use the stocker that has been hogged out. I have it set to go off at 22 psi. If I rased that do you think it would help on the dyno some? I also have my blow off valves to go off at 60psi. I know they work because you can hear them when I get on it hard. Do you think that if I raised the overall boost would it help? I dont have the PDR 3b it was something that Ponci had lying around. Cant beat the price well I did have to jew him down a bit :-laf I am running a full PDR 40/16 BTH3b/26. Everything else is in my profile.



Sorry to hijack your thread Jarred well it is on the same topic though.



Stomp

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Work with Brad... ... he knows what is going on. Yep, he is a bud and If I know something he knows it too... ... vise versa! There are those of us that talk, to help each other or bounce off ideas off of!



Jim

 

[Stomp]

Brad has done most of my work, but he doesnt like it when I beat him on the dyno :-laf I think he tends to leave mine a little detuned if you know what I mean. We have never played with the wastegate or the overall boost, because it has allways ran very well. I have to go see him next week so I will have to run it by him and see what he says.



Stomp

 

[Jerred]

Hey Jarred how do you like those traction bars that Ponci made for you? He is going to build me a set here in the next week or so. Sorry I didnt make it down to say hi when you were in town.



Sorry to hijack your thread Jarred well it is on the same topic though.



Stomp

No problem dude, any comments will help. They work great. You can feel how firm the suspension is right out of the box. The truck feels great and tows even better. They're worth the money, if you ask me. They're a little steep compared to some others you can buy and bolt on, but he uses about the burliest hardware I've seen so longevity should never be a problem. The hime joints alone are about $500 for all four!! Aircraft grade stuff, stout!! And, he is of the same welding mindset as me, none of that tack weld stuff. All the joints are welded all the way, great penetration, real strong!! And much better install than the ones that bolt into the Ubolts for the axle block and spring stacks. The brackets are welded to the axle.

 

[Jerred]

Your now learning the difference between the road and the dyno, I run the total boost to 40-50 psi then open the gate to the bottom turbo to hit it hard. This idea seems to work best on the dyno! The guys that run at the track might have a little different idea.



That top turbo is not small, so use it! Then when it starts to fall out bring the big turbo on... . like now! The PDR 3B's are well worth the money(extra) over the stockers. I started out with one and still support them!



Yea your going to hear me say this... ... a 3B is not the under dog on the dyno.



Jim

Right on, that's what I was thinking, but Pius was saying to dump off of the top turbo earlier and make the 3B do most of the work. My experience on Ken's dyno was that it seemed to lag before making boost, which kills the run when power comes on so late, especially with the 12v. Seems to me like letting that USB do some more work (it's easily capable of 50psi +) and then blowing open the gate is the answer.



Here's the next problem: what you're talking about is spooling the top turbo to X amount of boost. The problem is that the external WG spring, the way I have it setup, blows open with back pressure. Now, I guess I can put both springs in there (1 and . 5bar), run a boost line to the top of the WG (used like additional spring tension to keep the valve closed longer) and another to the bottom, and calibrate it to blow when the total boost is about 40psi (to start with) which will be mostly USB flow and a little 3B flow. Then, as the boost pressure increases, the line to the bottom of the spring will keep it open. I'll have to call the guy at Tial again to get some numbers to figure out pressures and how much to regulate to either side of that spring. Seems like alot more work than the internal gates, but everyone says they're better at high HP due to valve creep, which seems like sound engineering.



Next step is the fuel pump. Thinking of modifying a 913 or 889 core (215hp), but I've heard you can change some of the guts (13mm plungers?) on the 180hp pumps to get the same effect? End game for this truck is the slead track, not much of a race truck with a manual trans.

 

[Jerred]

HEY, you are the one that chose to move up there I didn't force you away, or did I... ..... staying just out of reach on my rollrs of choice We had one just up the road you could use it, well if I wasn't! :-laf Good luck bud great to see you all are ok, I had been calling till Ken said he had heard from ya!

My cell phone went tits up somewhere in BC, had to buy a calling card. Came back online in Anchorage and got your message, but you weren't home when I called.



I may not have a dyno, on the island, but I've been throwing back fish bigger than most guys have made into wall art!! Any of you guys want some fresh salmon, I can flash freeze and overnight to you. Silver run is about over, but I might be out on the boat again as soon as my buddy gets er' fixed.



Any new toys?

 

[Evan A. Beck]

Next step is the fuel pump. Thinking of modifying a 913 or 889 core (215hp), but I've heard you can change some of the guts (13mm plungers?) on the 180hp pumps to get the same effect? End game for this truck is the slead track, not much of a race truck with a manual trans.

Let us know when you need a pump. Heh heh... When are you going to get some 4's??? Didn't lose that crazy cat again, did ya?

 

[Jerred]

Let us know when you need a pump. Heh heh... When are you going to get some 4's??? Didn't lose that crazy cat again, did ya?

Hey thanks for the care package!!



Soon!! Got any cores?? I'll call you guys when I'm close to taking the truck down for winter mods, unless you have a pump ready to go, then we might talk earlier.....



4's



Nope, still kickin'!! We live next to a fisherman, so every morning we find the rat he dragged in during the night. ADF&G is gonna be on my ***** if he doesn't knock it off!!

 

[Jerred]

We have never played with the wastegate or the overall boost, because it has allways ran very well. I have to go see him next week so I will have to run it by him and see what he says.



Stomp

Here's the deal, it seems like all the guys building compound turbo kits have come up with a magic internal WG setting that they all use, and make the kits work well together. Now, I'm sure it's based on some math given the two turbo's mapping info, but no one seems to want to mess with that 'given. ' (Hit me if I'm wrong :-{} )



It seems, with the 12v CTD at least, that you want a fast hard spool, with no interuption. I. e. little turbo does the work to get you 30-40 # or more and then big boy takes over. Question: how do you blow open that WG hard to spool big boy while not completely taking the breath away from the little guy? I know every turbo is different, just looking for a starting point, I can tweek from there.

 

[BPonci]

landline me and i will give you some top secret info. 1-800-575-0229 or 1-707-725-9170

 

[Jerred]

When are you going to get some 4's???

You mean injectors? Got some when we stopped in, remember? That was the whole point of the trip, the slead pull and beers with the boys was just the icing on the cake!! By the way, they are awesome on cold starts for some reason. It takes a lot less time to get er warmed up, thanks!