What injectors do i have?

[RWherley]

Ok so long story here, I bought my truck 5 years ago with a blown engine and I order a set of +40hp ones from a diesel shop near by and installed them with out thinking about it, flash forward to this August and I had some engine issues which turned out to be a bad injector tip, So I got a new set of 5x13 injectors with 145 degree tips thinking it would be a up grade, but I was dead wrong, I lost Power, boost, and MPG and more less hate how my truck runs now mostly because these 5x13's dont flow the same. Where I need help is figuring out what my old ones were to get a new set. Here's what i figured out so far, they seem to be Lucas bodys, they are a 4 hole tip, and appear to be 160 degree spray angles when we pop tested them, what i dont know is the nozzle size. The only number I can find is 9329. Thanks for the help.

 

[BigPapa]

5X13 is a lot more than a 40HP injector. Stock 2nd Gen 160's are 5X9.5's, 215's are 5X10.25, Marine 370's are 5X12, and Marine 435's were a 5X14.

The only 4-holers I've ever heard of were Marine 300's and 330's. They were a 4X12.

 

[RWherley]

I know they are not from Cummins, I have been doing some checking and I think they be from POD but i still cant figure out the size but i think they are bigger then +40

 

[BigPapa]

Thoroughbred Diesel lists a 50HP Lucas POD injector here:

http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/industrial-injection/industrial-dodge-89-93-12-valve-injectors.htm

I don't know what hole/size they are.

 

[ChrisWilliams]

I'm no expert so this is more of a question. If the injectors flow more, would you need to adjust the pump to flow more too? Else the duration of the injection would be shorter. Don't know how this would affect combustion, timing, ...

 

[BigPapa]

This is where you need to decide what you want before you start modding. There are a couple of free adjustments on the VE and there are parts you can change like the fuel pin and a governor spring kit to increase pump output and you can advance the timing. The POD's listed above would be fine with a stock VE but would be much better with the mods I listed above. With those pump mods and the POD's you'll probably be in the 225-250HP range, about 75-100HP increase.

When you get into MUCH larger injectors, to get the full benefit, much more extensive pump mods need to be done and then you get into dependability issues.

I have a '93 that has the POD's, a pump modded by PDR, a different exhaust housing, ATS manifold, and a 4" exhaust that dyno'd 308/668.

 

[RWherley]

I suspect those might be what i had, but the 5x13's should still out flow them, I'm going to try one more thing before i declare the new ones junk. Ill let you all know how it goes.

 

[RWherley]

My truck is far from stock, I have a BD fuel pin, 3200 rpm governor spring, Steed Speed exhaust manifold, HX Super 40 turbo, 2nd gen inter cooler, twin ram intake, advanced timing, and a tuned pump, high flow piston lift pump, 4" turbo back exhaust, PDR cold air intake, With the old 4 hole injectors it would make 42 psi max boost and get a combine average of 19 mpg, with the new sticks i dropped them in a touched nothing else and the truck didnt accelerate as fast, topped out a around 34 psi, so tuned it a little different and got performance close to what it use to be still not the same but im down to 16.6 mpg under the same driving conditions

 

[RWherley]

Ok havent run it enough to get a new mpg rating but, as far as power I have got a big improvement out of them my putting 1 size thicker spacer washer under the injectors.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Well that is interesting....

Any updates on MPG?

 

[ofelas]

Hi, were your pistons changed when the blown engine was rebuilt 5 years back?

 

[RWherley]

No pistons are correct for the engine, I've been trying to get a new MPG number but its been hard with the turn of cold the truck is idling more and using 4x4 a lot so thats dragging the mileage down too, when weather improves ill give you a update.

 

[ofelas]

Going to a thicker washer and gaining performance tells me your timing is way advanced.

I wouldn't stack washers though to raise the nozzle.

Keep the thicker washers you have in there now, and bump the VE away from the head 1/8" at a time to test.

 

[RWherley]

update time, last tank came out at 15.8 mpg, 3 miles less then the old injectors, next day of nice weather the POD's are going back in to see if the mileage comes back, if it dose i will be getting a new set of POD's

 

[glhs]

Just a thought; are you sure you have injectors for a 1st gen or a p-pump truck? P-pump pop off pressure would be too high for a ve.
If you have the correct pistons for the 1993, the 145 spray angle and thinnest copper washer should give best results.
A wider spray angle is used for non-intercooled pistons.

 

[RWherley]

correct me if im wrong but dont P pump injectors have a bigger thread size then ve ones making them impossible to switch

 

[RWherley]

Now that said, I ordered them for a 1st gen, if there was a mix up and the place of purchase thats possible

 

[ofelas]

P-pump Injector bodies are 14mm, IC VE are 12mm thread
Both are 145 degree nozzles.
Good builders usually set slightly higher pop off pressures, for better atomization.
This also delays the inevitable spring sag.
Slightly higher pop off pressures = very slightly retarded timing that’s practically invisible with pump bumps.

 

[ofelas]

Hey Ray,

I know your Mark Wilson DieselTuff 5x13’s make the same power as POD’s & his 5x14’s make more....proven on single & twin trucks.

Now the 155deg PODs will make more power down low....all 155deg inj’s do...but perhaps with the downside of spraying outside the bowl on your IC head.

Next - not the injector builder's fault as he didn’t know what he was replacing. Based on the turbo you are running & you wanted less smoke....you got what you asked for, given that you thought you had the "correct angle +40/+50 injectors" rather than what you actually had.

Send them back to him given that your old injectors were larger than what you thought you had, and I am sure Mark Wilson (user name "nascar" former PDR honcho on here) will do you right.

Can't ask for any better from any of the several "fly by night drop shipz diesel vendorz" out there, Mark will treat you right, I know from experience.


I'm sure you will get this sorted out to your satisfaction.

Edited - I'm not sure why you lost mileage unless due to other factors...no one has lost mileage going from PODs to 145 degree injectors on an intercooled truck...even if you'd have tuned to the 145 degree 5x13s he sent you, you should have made the same overall power & gained mpg...you have something else going on.

 

[RWherley]

Thanks Chip, ill send them to mark and see what happens, I the mean time, the Pods are back in the truck, and ive notice a substantial power gain, it comes off the line much smoother and ive picked up 5 to 6 psi max boost, ill report back on mpg when i refuel, and with what happens with the 5x13s