What is my gross combined vehicle weight rating?

[AHutchison]

I have an '03 3500 CTD and would like to know what I can handle as far as the stock suspension. Is there any upgrades that I can do to be able to haul more? My truck has stacked boxes on it and I know that I have enough torque to get it to where it needs to go. I also have electic brakes for the trailer. Thanks for your help.

 

[AHutchison]

Oh,

it is a dually also

 

[Road Dog]

Generally you can't change your GVW and the factory GCWR is just a guideline.
GVW = 12,000lb
payload = 4432 (assuming a QuadCab)
GCWR = 21,000 (w/3. 73) or 23,000 (w/4. 10)
towing = 13,300 (w/3. 73) or 15,300 (w/4. 10)

 

[Cosmo]

The factory GCWR isn't a guideline, it's what the manufacturer has said the truck is safe handling. If you get in an accident hauling above your gross weight, kiss your butt goodbye.

There is nothing you can do to increase your legal weight limits.

 

[Road Dog]

The GCWR only appears in sales brochures. The commercial vehicle inspectors around here only care about the GVW, GAWR, tire limits, and licensed weight. In practical terms you're limited by the receiver (up to 12,000 lbs for a class IV) or the pin weight of a fifth wheel or goose neck (with a 25% pin weight & a payload of 4,400 that would be 17,600). If you're pulling a 4-wheel farm trailer then there's almost no limit but you're going slow.

 

[HBarlow]

The factory GCWR isn't a guideline, it's what the manufacturer has said the truck is safe handling. If you get in an accident hauling above your gross weight, kiss your butt goodbye.

There is nothing you can do to increase your legal weight limits.

No, not true. That's the oldest false rumor circulating on the internet. It is often cited by internet weight police but no one has ever been able to cite an actual case with names, dates, places, where that has been true.

As Road Dog stated, GCWR figures can only be found in marketing brochures for the model year. DOT officers have no idea what that number is and care even less. DOT enforces GVWR, GAWR, and tire ratings along with CDLs when required. The only time DOT pays attention to gross combined weights is when the total exceeds 26k and the driver does not have a CDL.

Of course, if someone loads his truck with such an outrageously obvious overload that any casual observer might be concerned and crashes into and damages property or injures someone else, a lawyer can always sue but a lawyer can sue anyone at anytime. No one is safe or protected from frivilous lawsuits.

 

[NIsaacs]

To AHutchison & Cosmo, go to Towing and Hauling Forum and click on entry #18 under firewood haul.



The three Dodge pickups were licensed for 26,000 lbs and the two Fords (both highly modified, including heavier axles) were licensed for 34,000 lbs.



We hauled in three states for three years with those loads without any issues. Were we just lucky? Maybe... .



Nick

 

[RustyJC]

The three Dodge pickups were licensed for 26,000 lbs and the two Fords (both highly modified, including heavier axles) were licensed for 34,000 lbs.

So, according to this logic, if I licensed a 4 cylinder automatic Ford Ranger for 40,000 lbs, it would be "legal"???



Rusty

 

[AH64ID]

The GCWR only appears in sales brochures. The commercial vehicle inspectors around here only care about the GVW, GAWR, tire limits, and licensed weight. In practical terms you're limited by the receiver (up to 12,000 lbs for a class IV) or the pin weight of a fifth wheel or goose neck (with a 25% pin weight & a payload of 4,400 that would be 17,600). If you're pulling a 4-wheel farm trailer then there's almost no limit but you're going slow.

Exactly.

So, according to this logic, if I licensed a 4 cylinder automatic Ford Ranger for 40,000 lbs, it would be "legal"???



Rusty

Non commercial trucks here in Idaho can buy 1 of 3 weight ratings, under 8K, 8,001-16K, 16,001-26K. . so yes if you were to register a Ranger for 26K you would be legal. . IF. . you were within the tires/GAWR, which we all know won't happen.





To the OP, the way I look at the ratings is this. The DRW RAWR is lower than both the tire limit, and the AAM axle limit. This tells me that Dodge feels that 9350# is the safe working limit, and I would attempt to not exceed that. There is still a lot of weight to work with there. With about 5Klbs of available payload you can tow a very heavy GN trailer.

 

[HBarlow]

So, according to this logic, if I licensed a 4 cylinder automatic Ford Ranger for 40,000 lbs, it would be "legal"???

Rusty

Yes.

The state of Texas and your local court house, if the clerks know the rules, will be happy to register your hypothetical Ranger for 40k.

The DOT would not let you operate on the highways if you exceed any tire, axle, or truck GVWR ratings though.

My previouis two Dodge Rams were registered for 26k. I ran commercial over 48 states and BC, AB, SK, and ON Canada and was legal in all.

 

[NIsaacs]

So, according to this logic, if I licensed a 4 cylinder automatic Ford Ranger for 40,000 lbs, it would be "legal"???



Rusty

It's the same "logic" Dodge uses on the new "max tow" it's the same truck as your 2011 model, give or take a few specialty items that DOT can't see.



I don't think the Ford Ranger with the 4 cylinder and automatic is practical, however if it were a v/6 with a 5spd... .



Nick

 

[Rockranch]

Question for Harvey

Yes.



The state of Texas and your local court house, if the clerks know the rules, will be happy to register your hypothetical Ranger for 40k.



The DOT would not let you operate on the highways if you exceed any tire, axle, or truck GVWR ratings though.



My previouis two Dodge Rams were registered for 26k. I ran commercial over 48 states and BC, AB, SK, and ON Canada and was legal in all.

Harvey,

I have a question about truck licensing in Texas. If I need to move this to another thread, let me know.



When I registered my truck, the lady just did the paperwork and sent me some plates. The door plate shows GVW at 11,500. My trailer GVW is 14,000. I do not plan on hauling over 26,000. Couldn't anyway with the current set up. It sounds, from your posts, that you license your truck for GCVW. Do I read that correctly? Does it only apply for CDL holders?



Thank you.

 

[Cosmo]

No, not true. That's the oldest false rumor circulating on the internet. It is often cited by internet weight police but no one has ever been able to cite an actual case with names, dates, places, where that has been true.



As Road Dog stated, GCWR figures can only be found in marketing brochures for the model year. DOT officers have no idea what that number is and care even less. DOT enforces GVWR, GAWR, and tire ratings along with CDLs when required. The only time DOT pays attention to gross combined weights is when the total exceeds 26k and the driver does not have a CDL.



Of course, if someone loads his truck with such an outrageously obvious overload that any casual observer might be concerned and crashes into and damages property or injures someone else, a lawyer can always sue but a lawyer can sue anyone at anytime. No one is safe or protected from frivilous lawsuits.

It's much like federal emissions laws in that by and large, nobody is looking except perhaps in isolated pockets.



What I mean by that is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence saying that people haven't gotten bitten for running over their gross weight, but that doesn't make it legal.



In WA, where I spent my first 30-ish years, you may declare a gross weight UP TO THE LEGAL LIMIT, which is what the manufacturer states on the door placard or wherever it's in print.



When I registered my 2500, which has a gross vehicle weight of 8800 pounds, I could register it for 6000 pounds, 9000 pounds, or I think 12000 pounds. It would be cheaper for me to register it at 6000 pounds, and I probably would never have an issue with someone checking. If someone did check, I'd be over weight by 1500 pounds with me, a full tank of fuel, and my typical cargo. So I bumped up to the next level - 9000 pounds gross weight. If someone from the DOT were so inclined, and ran me over the scales, I would legally be in the clear so long as my truck was under 8800 pounds. 8800? Yes, 8800 pounds. That's the gross weight of the vehicle. That's the legal limit. The fact that I pay more to have a 9000 pound gross weight rating means nothing. I could pay for 12000 pound declared gross weight - that doesn't mean I could legally load up that high.





Now, when you start talking about commercial vehicles and commercial enforcement, I can't really comment. Commercial enforcement guys may look at tire/axle ratings above and beyond the gross weights.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,
I have a question about truck licensing in Texas. If I need to move this to another thread, let me know.

When I registered my truck, the lady just did the paperwork and sent me some plates. The door plate shows GVW at 11,500. My trailer GVW is 14,000. I do not plan on hauling over 26,000. Couldn't anyway with the current set up. It sounds, from your posts, that you license your truck for GCVW. Do I read that correctly? Does it only apply for CDL holders?

Thank you.

My present truck is licensed for GVWR of 12,500#. My fifth wheel is also registered for its own GVWR of 14,500. I own both and must pay registration fees on each separately.

My previous trucks were registered for 26,000k because at the time I was hauling new RV trailers for hire. New trailers from manufacturer to dealer have no registration, only temporary transporter plate issued by the transport company I was leased to for the duration of the delivery. The transporter plate does not provide for weight fees which must be paid so the way it is done is to register the truck for the total gross combined weight anticipated.

Weight fees and registration methods vary a little between states. In Texas we pay registration fees for trailers based on their weight and also the truck.

 

[HBarlow]

It's much like federal emissions laws in that by and large, nobody is looking except perhaps in isolated pockets.

What I mean by that is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence saying that people haven't gotten bitten for running over their gross weight, but that doesn't make it legal.

In WA, where I spent my first 30-ish years, you may declare a gross weight UP TO THE LEGAL LIMIT, which is what the manufacturer states on the door placard or wherever it's in print.

When I registered my 2500, which has a gross vehicle weight of 8800 pounds, I could register it for 6000 pounds, 9000 pounds, or I think 12000 pounds. It would be cheaper for me to register it at 6000 pounds, and I probably would never have an issue with someone checking. If someone did check, I'd be over weight by 1500 pounds with me, a full tank of fuel, and my typical cargo. So I bumped up to the next level - 9000 pounds gross weight. If someone from the DOT were so inclined, and ran me over the scales, I would legally be in the clear so long as my truck was under 8800 pounds. 8800? Yes, 8800 pounds. That's the gross weight of the vehicle. That's the legal limit. The fact that I pay more to have a 9000 pound gross weight rating means nothing. I could pay for 12000 pound declared gross weight - that doesn't mean I could legally load up that high.

Now, when you start talking about commercial vehicles and commercial enforcement, I can't really comment. Commercial enforcement guys may look at tire/axle ratings above and beyond the gross weights.

Actually, it is not at all like federal emissions laws. A whole lot of folks in every state are paying very close attention indeed to matters of weight enforcement. Every once in awhile a TDR member learns that fact the hard way when he decides to haul a heavy load of firewood or a backhoe. Most private owners who use their pickup trucks for occasional light hauling are never exposed and never aware of all the laws that are precisely and heavily enforced throughout the country. It is not only commercial haulers who are subject to the laws, everyone is but is seldom made aware of the heavy hand of the law.

Private owners pulling RV trailers are often unaware of the laws because the weights of an RV trailer vary very little. They all have an empty weight and a fully loaded for travel weight which is always very close to GVWR. DOT doesn't pay attention to the overloaded 3/4 ton pickups hauling huge fifth wheel trailers because they are not required to cross the weigh scales.

The point you are missing is that manufacturer's gross combined weights are guidelines issued by the manufacturers of light vehicles based on their own subjective testing. (We have heard that a new federal law will soon regulate light truck manufacturers in the way they test and assign GCWRs but for now some manufacturers grossly exaggerate. )

GCWRs appear nowhere in the law and are not legally enforceable. The numbers primarily deal with matters of load starting ability on steep grades with maximum rated vehicle and towed weights, temperature management during steep climbs in high ambient temperatures, and other mostly endurance factors to protect the manufacturer during the warranty period. Elements like rear axle ratios play a major role in setting GCWRs, not suspension and tires.

DOT officers have no idea what the GCWR of my truck or yours is and do not care. Dodge Ram diesel duallies engaged in RV transport and/or hotshot hauling all over the United States are registered for and operating at 30,000, even 40,000 lbs. combined weights not because nobody is paying attention, DOT cops are very well aware of them because they scale weigh them every day. They are operating at those weights legally because their owners have CDLs and their trucks and trailers are properly registered.

The only "anecdotal evidence" I have ever heard of is the rumors and misinformation spread on websites and between light truck owners. The false claim and discussions pop up from time to time on websites including TDR but no one who makes that claim has ever produced evidence of an actual example where an owner was sued in court for operating his vehicle overloaded. It the claim was factual the newspaper and magazine articles would be easy to locate.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Harvey,

I have a question about truck licensing in Texas. If I need to move this to another thread, let me know.



When I registered my truck, the lady just did the paperwork and sent me some plates. The door plate shows GVW at 11,500. My trailer GVW is 14,000. I do not plan on hauling over 26,000. Couldn't anyway with the current set up. It sounds, from your posts, that you license your truck for GCVW. Do I read that correctly? Does it only apply for CDL holders?



Thank you.

When reigstering a new pickup truck in Texas, the clerk usually looks at the weight on the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) and at the ton rating of the truck also shown on the MCO and adds the two together unless she(he) is told by you to add more wieght. You can add all the weight you want... the State of Texas needs/wants your money as posted above. For example you pickup shows a weight of 6,700-lbs (usually is the weight of the basic vehicle without any options) on the MCO and shows the capacity as a 1-ton, she(he) adds 2,000-lbs to 6,700-lbs and issues your license tags for that amount.



Bill

 

[AH64ID]

Private owners pulling RV trailers are often unaware of the laws because the weights of an RV trailer vary very little. They all have an empty weight and a fully loaded for travel weight which is always very close to GVWR. DOT doesn't pay attention to the overloaded 3/4 ton pickups hauling huge fifth wheel trailers because they are not required to cross the weigh scales.

I am not sure about other states, but in Idaho a RV trailer does not count towards your total weight. So I could have registered my truck for 16K lbs and have a 15K lb RV trailer on a 9K lb truck and be legal. Idaho says that RV's have an expensive enough registration that they won't make you up the vehicle registration for the RV.

The point you are missing is that manufacturer's gross combined weights are guidelines issued by the manufacturers of light vehicles based on their own subjective testing. (We have heard that a new federal law will soon regulate light truck manufacturers in the way they test and assign GCWRs but for now some manufacturers grossly exaggerate. )

I believe the new max tow is rated on the SAE towing standards... and it has some LARGE ratings!

GCWRs appear nowhere in the law and are not legally enforceable. The numbers primarily deal with matters of load starting ability on steep grades with maximum rated vehicle and towed weights, temperature management during steep climbs in high ambient temperatures, and other mostly endurance factors to protect the manufacturer during the warranty period. Elements like rear axle ratios play a major role in setting GCWRs, not suspension and tires.

I am 99% sure Idaho registers on GCW, at least that's what I have been told I am paying for when I register in the 16,001-26,000 bracket. The problem is Idaho has nothing in print (at least they didn't 2 years ago when I found out about the different weights) about non-commercial weight registrations.

When I registered my 2500, which has a gross vehicle weight of 8800 pounds, I could register it for 6000 pounds, 9000 pounds, or I think 12000 pounds. It would be cheaper for me to register it at 6000 pounds, and I probably would never have an issue with someone checking. If someone did check, I'd be over weight by 1500 pounds with me, a full tank of fuel, and my typical cargo. So I bumped up to the next level - 9000 pounds gross weight. If someone from the DOT were so inclined, and ran me over the scales, I would legally be in the clear so long as my truck was under 8800 pounds. 8800? Yes, 8800 pounds. That's the gross weight of the vehicle. That's the legal limit. The fact that I pay more to have a 9000 pound gross weight rating means nothing. I could pay for 12000 pound declared gross weight - that doesn't mean I could legally load up that high.

Where I live its 100% legal to be at 9000 lbs, or if you paid for 12,000 if you are under axle/tire limits.



Based on your logic you have a 800 lb payload on an 3/4 ton truck.

 

[HBarlow]

All true and accurate.

Taking Bill's statement a step farther, many (most?) Texas light truck owners are registered for insufficient weight to load their 3/4 or dually pickup to gross vehicle weight. They are blissfully unaware that the title clerk in the dealership that sold them the truck and the court house clerk that registered it were clueless and although they saved him a few dollars, they left him vulnerable to a ticket if he ever gets pulled onto a roadside weigh scale during a DPS campaign.

 

[HBarlow]

I am not sure about other states, but in Idaho a RV trailer does not count towards your total weight. So I could have registered my truck for 16K lbs and have a 15K lb RV trailer on a 9K lb truck and be legal. Idaho says that RV's have an expensive enough registration that they won't make you up the vehicle registration for the RV.



I believe the new max tow is rated on the SAE towing standards... and it has some LARGE ratings!



I am 99% sure Idaho registers on GCW, at least that's what I have been told I am paying for when I register in the 16,001-26,000 bracket. The problem is Idaho has nothing in print (at least they didn't 2 years ago when I found out about the different weights) about non-commercial weight registrations.



Where I live its 100% legal to be at 9000 lbs, or if you paid for 12,000 if you are under axle/tire limits.

Based on your logic you have a 800 lb payload on an 3/4 ton truck.

As I explained above, registering the truck for total combined is not necessary when registering my own truck and trailer. Each is registered for its maximum gvwr.

I registered for gross combined weight when I was hauling unregistered trailers for hire.

The truck registered for 9,000# might not be legal when hauling a 16k trailer. Depends on how much weight is riding on the kingpin and rear axle of truck. The rear axle is sometimes overloaded on Ram 2500s and GVWR is exceeded.

You are probably correct about the new Max Tow Ram being truly rated and capable of towing the advertised GCWR. Lots of commercial haulers have been doing it successfully for years. I have offered the opinion many times in the past that Dodge ratings were probably underrated and Furds and GMs overrated.

 

[AH64ID]

As I explained above, registering the truck for total combined is not necessary when registering my own truck and trailer. Each is registered for its maximum gvwr.



I registered for gross combined weight when I was hauling unregistered trailers for hire.



The truck registered for 9,000# might not be legal when hauling a 16k trailer. Depends on how much weight is riding on the kingpin and rear axle of truck. The rear axle is sometimes overloaded on Ram 2500s and GVWR is exceeded.



You are probably correct about the new Max Tow Ram being truly rated and capable of towing the advertised GCWR. Lots of commercial haulers have been doing it successfully for years. I have offered the opinion many times in the past that Dodge ratings were probably underrated and Furds and GMs overrated.

Since I don't have a non-RV trailer I am not sure how that works here in Idaho and I presume I could do like you and register the truck lower and the trailer higher if I were using a non-RV trailer.



I have always felt the same about Dodge ratings.