What is safe to tow ???

[CFollett]

Help me here ?



I have a 2004 Quad cab 4x4, 3. 73, Smarty, exhast and Valve body upgrade and California model 235 hp, Stage 1 AFE and air bags and upgraded shocks.

I have been towing a 32ft Aluminscape without any problems. We are thinking of going to a toyhauler, ( my wife has MS and can not get into the coach easliy) . The ramp of a toyhauler with a little help will work. Going from a trailer with two slides and such I would like to stay with. The trailers I have looked at are 18000 gvw, Mine is 13500 now... ...

the truck gvw is 9000

rear is 6000

front is 5200

payload is 2140

tow weight is 13500

My hitch is 16000



If I stay with a hich pin weight at the 2140, what can I pull trailer wise ?

 

[EricBu12]

My 36' Raptor by Keystone is a 15K 3 axle and it did fine with my 3/4 ton with upgrades. . . I have a 09 3500 now and I drool over a 40' Wide open by Gulf stream. It has a separate wall that can open up to make more living space. . Seems like a wheelchair dream like you said. . .

The wide open 40' is a hitch weight of 2500# empty so you will be looking at a 36' or less. Usuals is a bed slide and a dinette/couch slide... or a bed, kitchen and couch. . Some have a straight front bed and a closet slide. which gives you 2 nightstands.

 

[Skydiver]

I'LL keep it simple and pleasant. When it comes to tires, the more the merrier. The tires are the first to fail when a truck is worked hard. I could what if all night long. A rear blow out on a two lane and who knows where you'll be.



Good luck with your wife.

 

[HBarlow]

It would be a very bad idea for all the same reasons that are posted here everytime the same question is posted.

You already know the answer because you don't even want to acknowledge in your post or signature that your truck is a 2500.

 

[Road Dog]

Payload = 2140
Fuel = 245 (35gal * 7lb/gal)
People = 320 (2 * 160lb/person)
Net Payload = 1,575lb

For a bumper pull at 10% hitch weight that's 15,750.
For a 5th wheel at 25% pin weight that's 6,300.

 

[CFollett]

I wanted help

If I knew the answer WHY would I post. I am confused the dealers will sell anything that they can... ... The trailer that I have now if , I understand is probably to much already ? Is the weight on the king pin the limiting factor or the CGVW ? The 3500 has the same axles, frame and brakes but more springs than I have and the weigh difference is not that much. I did add air bags to help but not cure. All of the three axle toy haulers I see going down the road being pulled by 2500's are then not legal. My question is to be legal do I have to go to 3500 and DRW or more or can I stay with the truck I have now and what size trailer ( read GVW ) should I be pulling. If being criticsized for asking, better than me aditiude, more than I have, is the spirt of TDR posters then I am out of here... ..... If you are better then me and don't want to help keep it to yourself and everyone will be better off.

 

[EricBu12]

Seeing you have a 16k hitch. You are limited to a 36' 5th 3 axle or less. My 36' raptor is 15,500 GVW. Your airbags is good for weight help. . Get an exhaust brake if you don't have one. . Use 19. 5" . . "F" rated 12 ply. The hold the weight real well. Otherwise a dually is needed.



The trailer I mentioned above is the largest I would do with a 3/4 ton. . Yet a single wheel 1-ton with the 19. 5 would work good for the 18,000 gvw trailers. The tires I use are rated at 4080# @95PSI.



Good luck with everything

 

[bromano676]

I would say you need to look at four numbers to determine actual allowable pin weight.

1 the rear axel weight rating on the door of the truck. 2 the max load of the tires you are running. 3 the max pin weight rating of the hitch you have. 4 the registered gvw of the truck.



Most likely the tires will be the big limiting factor. And remember that you need to add the back half of your truck to the pin weight for a total of what is sitting on the tires.



As for the length and weight of the trailer itself. You would need to know what the maximum allowable is for your class of driver license. Then make sure that you do not exceed the maximum registered weight (gvw)of each vechicle. truck and trailer. Remember the truck plus the pin weight must be less then the trucks gvw. the weight sitting on the trailer axels must be less then the trailer gvw.



After all of that is done, Now you have to decide what YOU are comfortable with.



I hope tis helps, and does not confuse you more

 

[Skydiver]

CFollett, I don't think HBarlow was trying to misbehave. He was a little firm. OK,,, now we are passed all that. We just do not want to hear about your rig going over a mountain side.

When a rear tire blows out all types of bad things happen. You will find that 2 feet or your camper roof is hanging beyound your trucks fenders. If you go single do the 12 ply as Eric says.

I pulled (now sold) my 12,600 lb Newmar and the duelly makes the rear of the Dodge very stable.

I have seen for years now that many of the big rigs have gone to a single rear wheel. Take a look at how huge the single tire is. They look to be over a foot wide.



I do admire you for trying to keep your wife comfortable.

 

[Dick Langendorff]

According to the Dodge Truck Specs, your truck is set up to tow 10,400 lbs. with a Gross Combined Weight of 17,000 lbs. Hitch weight, air bags, and anything else you want to add, will not change the GCWR.



These trucks can move a lot of weight, but you have to be able to control that weight. Brakes, etc. You do not want the tail waggin the dog.



Your truck is similar to mine, except for the 4X4, and the add ons. I scaled mine and was at 16,600 lbs. I was not ready for a trip, so once I load up, I too am a little over the limit place by Dodge.



From what you are looking at, it appears you would be way over the legal limit.



Good Luck in your decision.

 

[bromano676]

The new super single wheel thing on the tractors is a little different from the pickup IMO

remember that there is a tandem axel there, so in the event of a blow out you still have three other tires.



and this is coming from a swr guy!!!!

 

[GAmes]

It's not a matter of being "legal", it is a matter of being safe. It is not illegal to exceed the GCWR set by Dodge. Take a look at the sidewalls of your rear tires and you will find the max load capability of each tire. Multiply by 2 and that is the max load you can have on the rear axle. I'll guarantee that the pin weight of the 18,000 GVWR trailer you like (when it is loaded for a trip) will exceed that limit by a lot. Also be aware that toyhaulers are built front heavy so that when you add the ATVs, motor cycles or sand dragster the trailer's balance will still leave the needed weight on the pin. I personally wouldn't hook a 5er toyhauler over 30 ft to a 2500 SB.

 

[Bob V]

The problem is there is not a HARD, FAST RULE that says one weight is safe and another is unsafe. Basic rule; the more weight you tow the LESS safe you will be. AND you WILL need to adjust your driving for that weight. My SRW is at 20,000 with the 5th wheel and I am fine with that, and yes I have had a blow out and had no problem controlling it.

 

[EricBu12]

This is my 36' Raptor. . My truck now gone to the trade-in grave in the sky. . this is my '01 3/4 ton with the 19. 5" tires.

I have yet to get the hitch on my new 09. It is beginning the snow season so no hurry to get the hitch on it right now.

#ad

 

[HBarlow]

If I knew the answer WHY would I post. I am confused the dealers will sell anything that they can... ... The trailer that I have now if , I understand is probably to much already ? Is the weight on the king pin the limiting factor or the CGVW ? The 3500 has the same axles, frame and brakes but more springs than I have and the weigh difference is not that much. I did add air bags to help but not cure. All of the three axle toy haulers I see going down the road being pulled by 2500's are then not legal. My question is to be legal do I have to go to 3500 and DRW or more or can I stay with the truck I have now and what size trailer ( read GVW ) should I be pulling. If being criticsized for asking, better than me aditiude, more than I have, is the spirt of TDR posters then I am out of here... ..... If you are better then me and don't want to help keep it to yourself and everyone will be better off.

You posted the question hoping that the members would tell you it is okay. Your instincts tell you it is not.

Dealers, neither truck dealers or RV dealers are responsible for ensuring that what you choose to buy and tow is safe. You are responsible.

It is extremely easy to KNOW that you can't tow a huge fifth wheel toy box with your truck. You only need to know three numbers.

1) GVWR of the trailer. Multiply it by . 25 and you will know the loaded kingpin weight of the trailer under consideration.

2) Rear tire capacity of your truck. Multiply that by 2 and you'll know rear axle carrying capacity.

3) Weigh your truck full of tools, fuel, fifth wheel hitch, and passengers. Obtain the total weight and weight on the rear axle. Subtract the unloaded rear axle weight from rear axle carrying capacity. The result is the allowable kingpin weight of a trailer.

Compare the result obtained in 1 above with the result obtained in 3.

 

[jelag]

We had an 01 and now an 04 dually that we tow a 22K lb trailer with... it has given us fits... we feel that over the years we've towed it safely but there are times that we know that if we hadn't been on our toes there would have been issues...



Through the years of doing this, what surprised us that we were checked and inspected at the scales more times than I can count and the one item that all scale houses kept looking for was the use of Red Diesel... the rest of the inspection was more or less a walk around... they once found a cracked rotor on one of our Fords F350 (before the PXRB Brake) and let us drive it out... .



We learned that the upper limit of the exhuast brake in 4th or 5th gear on a 6% grade was no more than about 15-18K lbs of trailer weight... .



In both cases we towed the first 200K of the life of the truck than retired the truck to easier pastures so to speak... we went through our share of clutches, transmissions and u-joints doing this... we later upgraded to a IH with a CAT rated at 56K lbs... .



Between the Fords and the 2 dodges I guess we logged 750K miles... with no accidents and no issues on the road except cam sensor issues with the Fords. .



So I guess that what I'm trying to say, if your knowledgeable and safe, you can do a lot with these trucks they aren't designed to do... over this time we must have had a total of 6-7 drivers... but it was hard on the trucks... of course the IH does the job and smiles... .



On the other side of the coin, a friend in Canada, who's seen what we tow, is close to retirement... he's just purchased his first large PU (1 ton dually) and a 36 or 38 ft 5er and has never in his life towed... but thought he and his wife would travel the US and Canada for a couple of years... . when he shared this with me... . I sat back in my chair and decided I didn't want to be on the same road with him... .

 

[GAmes]

Jim, there are a few major differences in your truck and trailer and the OPs. First, you have long beds with a longer wheelbase and of course duels. Second the weight distribution on a cargo trailer can be adjusted so that the pin weight is not excessive. The last is the drivers are pros with CDLs. Of course I can't make a judgement on the driving capabilities of the OP, but a short wheelbase single rear wheel 2500 is not anywhere near an optimum tow vehicle for a very heavy 5th wheel toyhauler, and even an experienced driver would have issues with that type of setup.

 

[jelag]

GAmes... .



Yes I agree with you... . my point was trying to say is that these trucks can be overloaded and ran safely... we never had a problem going up hills and across the desert at 108* other than the sun driving in the windshield and the AC not keeping up... .



Your right also... . a safe CDL driver who knows his vehicle is the guy you want piloting these big rigs... I passed today a driver who's company had the words "" drivers name, now has driven for us for over 1. 5 million miles, we appreciate his ability to drive safely""



To me nothing more needs to be said... .

 

[RVTRKN]

Stay within your axle ratings and registration requirements to include your trailer axle ratings. Dodge ratings other than than the axle ratings are their numbers per warranty and not DOT requirements. You can calculate within reason, but the only way you will know, is to weigh it. My suggestion would be to look at the dry weight and demand before the purchase they allow you to weigh it on a scale with your tow vehicle. If you can not get within a comfortable number (steer axle, drive axle weights) and expected loaded weight, don't buy it. To give you a comparison, my 3500 C&C can tow my 34' Arctic Fox fully loaded with all tanks full and with extra weight to spare, but my 2500 can do it with only fresh water and little weight to spare. You can do a search on TDR for this subject and find lots of numbers. If you look up one of my last posts I have given specific numbers for a member asking the same question.



DOT weight is what I'm refereing to, If your going to tow over Dodge ratings while staying within the axle ratings, than I suggest you drive slow and with caution and make sure you have the proper license & registration for what you are hauling. Every State varies on this, so ask your DMV what is needed.



Good luck on your purchase.

 

[BIGNASTY]

GAmes... .



Yes I agree with you... . my point was trying to say is that these trucks can be overloaded and ran safely... we never had a problem going up hills and across the desert at 108* other than the sun driving in the windshield and the AC not keeping up... .



Your right also... . a safe CDL driver who knows his vehicle is the guy you want piloting these big rigs... I passed today a driver who's company had the words "" drivers name, now has driven for us for over 1. 5 million miles, we appreciate his ability to drive safely""



To me nothing more needs to be said... .

On the other hand Ive seen guys that drive for a living and I wouldnt let them run my lawn mower. Just because a guy has a CDL wont make him a driver. I think that it is more common sense than anything else