What is the max GCVW for a Dodge?

[hammersley]

I mean the maximum.



JNELSON here:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116393&page=2&pp=15



said this:



trailer registerd for 22,200

truck registered @ 11,500

give me a GCVW of 33,700



That weight is good in the eyes of the law in all 50 states. Maybe not DC but I am my own warranty station.



I mean the maximum trailer weight I thought was 16,500 or maybe 17,000 NOT 22,000. What am I or Nelson missing?????

 

[JRMora]

Without going into too great a detail:



My truck has a GCWR of 21,000#. The maximum trailer I can pull PER DODGE is 21,000# - the weight of my truck with Fuel, hitch, cargo, and passengers (say 9,000#). That means 12,000# is the biggest trailer I can haul PER DODGE. If I had a 4. 10 rear end, I could haul a 14,000# trailer (the GCWR for that truck is 23,000#).



Can you do more? Yes. Will it result in any catastophy? Maybe, maybe not. I saw a guy in a 2500 QC SB with a Hemi(!!!) oulling a 30+ foot Mobile Suites 5er (with a utility trailer that had a Polaris ATV on it) going down I-25 recently. He wasn't going very fast (probably couldn't), but I am sure he was waaaaaay over his GVWR, GCWR, GAWR (for the rear) and who knows what else. If he wipes out, hope his insurance company doesn't say "nope".



Anyway, per the truck manufacturers certification, the maximum trailer you can haul is figured by taking the GCWR and subtracting the truck weight (with all the goodies).



Now I know many will disagree, but it's what I believe the right way to go is.



If you really want to pull a 22,000# trailer, use a MDT (FL60/FL70 or equivalent).



Juan

 

[RMcCulloch]

I mean the maximum trailer weight I thought was 16,500 or maybe 17,000 NOT 22,000. What am I or Nelson missing?????

In the Commercial hauling world (CDL required) the GCWR doesn't mean anything - the badge-toting "weight police" look at the sum of the GVWRs of the truck and trailer(s), compare that to the GAWRs and the load-carrying abilities of the tires, and then weigh things.



The grand total weights had best be under the other ratings.



In the RV world, it'll all depend upon the person with the badge...



FWIW, a 3rd Gen 3500 with 4. 10 axle(s) has a GCWR of 23,000#. At that weight, a bone-stock 305/555-equipped truck with a 48RE will accellerate nicely on an uphill grade. :-laf

 

[hammersley]

OK - are you saying that it's OK to exceed the

Door Sticker of the truck that might say for example max trailer weight - 17,000 lbs?

 

[amillstream]

I don't know for sure but Dodge only puts bumper hitches in their trucks. I'm not sure that I would want to even pull the max combined weight with a bumper hitch, and I believe the DOT looks at bumper hitches different than goosenecks. A friend of mine has been pulled over many times loaded close to or a little over 30,000lb (Mostly in Ohio) and zero issues with being overloaded. He is licenced for 31,000 and has his cdl's. If you can get by with it in Ohio, a person is probably legal in all 50, (well maybe not California, I here them guys are nuts with the rules out there)

 

[JJW_ND]

Experience...

Who would you rather be passing on the road... . a driver with more then 100K towing miles grossing 34K or a once or twice a year tow running 23K (or what ever max dodge says)?



I you are running commercial very long you will be thoroughly checked by the road police. They do NOT ignore tires, axle ratings. They could care less about warrenty.



I have pulled over 30K once. Out here on the plains after hours you go 100s of miles between a single vehicle.



ALso, if you are doing 100K's of miles yearly and you have more trailer then truck you will find those limitations quickly in cost to keep the tow rig running.



If you are not commercial and you are worried about what Dodge says (warrenty) those tow limits are important.



jjw

ND

 

[DBoyd]

In this litigious society, if you stretch the envelope and pull more than rated then pile everything up in a wreck with another vehicle, is your insurance company gonna cover your backside when they go to weighing everything????? Can you say "I am my own insurance company"??? Most of us can not!!

 

[DPelletier]

The answer to the question is 23,000 lbs. Whatever the justifications given, anyone above that number is taking a risk. The severity and ramifications of taking this risk is open for debate.



Dave

 

[hammersley]

That was my original point

It appeared to me that the original poster (see my note) was way over what DC had designed the truck for... ... but hey I'm not a commercial guy - but it appeared to me that hauling 50% over the rating of the truck could cause some real problems - If You have an accident... ... And that's where I didn't understand the statement that hauling that amount was OK in all 50 States... ... call me dumb - but it seemed odd to me - but hey I'm always willing to learn something... ... .



And I know there are posts aboiut hauling real heavy farm (stuff) for short distances - but that's not what we're talking about... ...

 

[RMcCulloch]

At those weights, he's hauling commercially.



Each of his vehicles are independently licensed by weight as you've recounted. So long as each is within its licensed weight (and the axles and tires are rated to carry that weight) he's legal in all 50 states.



There's a tremendous difference between what's LEGAL and what's REASONABLE: Pulling a 53' box full of lead bars behind a 1/2-ton with a small V6 may not be REASONABLE but (given appropriate licensing) may be LEGAL - especially if the pin weight is carried on a dolly that's hitched to the truck. [That would keep the tires from blowing almost instantly during hitching. ]



Would any sane person even think of driving such an abomination regardless of the level of aftermarket upgrades? Ask me that with enough cash in hand and a totally-flat routing and, perhaps, you might find one. :-laf

 

[EB]

I, just like jnelson, run hotshot. My licensed weight is 38,500 lbs. , 14,500 on the truck and 24,000 on the trailer. We haul commerically. Our insurance coverage at the companies we haul for is way beyond what the average driver will have. People like jnelson and I probably drive more miles in a yr pulling trailers than most people will drive in 5 or more yrs. of driving. We drive as many miles as most of the over the road truckers, because basically that is what we are. I have driven over a million miles without a ticket and, knock on wood, an accident. As far as being legal, do you think the companies we are leased to would let us run for them if we wern't legal? They are the ones that are liable. I see from the public profile that hammersley is a retired biologist. I wouldn't begin to try to tell him something about biology. Maybe he should stick to a subject he knows. The world of commerical trucking is entirely different than most things, and if any one person can figure out all the rules in all the different states, they are way smarter than I am.

For what it's worth, most of the time I will be pulling 18 - 20k. That will make my gross around 26-28k counting my truck. I have never been questioned at a scale house about my weight.

 

[GAmes]

Door Sticker of the truck that might say for example max trailer weight - 17,000 lbs?

What door sticker is that?? Mine only gives GAWRs and GVWR. No GCWR, since that is purely a manufacterers warranty thing and no tow ratings. My Receiver hitch has a tag with max ratings and so do my gooseneck and 5er hitches.

 

[XJSuperman]

I'm not very familiar with towing as I;ve never towed much or for long distances.

My future holds at the very least a nice travel trailer if not a lb 5th wheel toybox.



I think what it boils down to is what risk are you willing to take and what are the ramifications if you take the risk and get caught in the wrong place/wrong time.

My truck is stickered with a GVWR of 9,900 lbs. And I believe the GCWR is at or near 21,000 lbs. We know the truck will handle more... BUT say I'm a good couple tons or so over my GCWR. And say I'm am involved in an accident where someone is hurt or killed. Chances are the fact that I was overloaded will be a HUGE factor in any charges etc I am hit with. I for one wouldn;t take the chance no matter how experienced I am at towing. If the GCWR is 21,000 lbs stickered on the truck... warranty be damned... I'll not go over 21,000 lbs. The consequences FAR outweigh the benefits of towing that heavy with a truck that legally shouldn;t be doing it... no matter how awesome we think our trucks are and no matter how much they'll actually tow/haul... it's not worth it. And frankly I don;t care how long you've been towing and how heavy you tow... it only takes ONE accident to ruin yours or someone else's life... at the very least we should be responsible enough to be SAFE and within the limits of the vehicle set by the manufacturer... whether we agree with them or not.



There may not be a sticker on the truck that states GCWR but use some common sense. There IS that information per dodge. And using the reason "my hitch is rated for 30,000 lbs" is a BAD reason to overload the truck and from a legal standpoint I can;t see how that'd stand up in court when any shmuck with internet access or a telephone can find out the GVWR, GAWR, and GCWR for any truck on the road. It goes by TRUCK limitations not hitch limitations (unless the hitch is not rated as high as the truck).

 

[RMcCulloch]

The RV-towing world, excluding those with CDLs, is generally concerned with 2 things: the GCWR as a measure of Towing Capacity and Law Suits in the event of a wreck.



Most Insurance Companies tend to look at the GVWR and GCWR to set their rates for non-commercial usage.



The States look, primarily, at GVWR to set license fees.



There are frequent threads, both here and on other fora/newsgroups, that discuss, at extreme length, the advisability of RV pullers exceeding the manufacturers' GCWRs. These threads rarely, if ever, discuss the issue from a non-RV perspective: GVWR(tow vehicle)+GVWR(towed vehicle) [much less GAWR(tow vehicle)+GAWR(towed vehicle)].



That brings us back to the original question that started this thread: a non-commercially-licensed member asking about commercially-licensed usage within the context of information published by the manufacturer which ignores the commercially-licensed world.



The answer? "It's a matter of Crab Apples and Horse Apples. " The GCWR, as published, is meaningless in the commercially-licensed world and, for that matter, in Law Enforcement since the Load Ratings of the tires, the GAWR of each axle, and the GVWR of each vehicle are what determines the legality of the consist and the legality of the class of driver's license held by the operator of the consist.



In the non-commercially licensed world, the GCWR has meaning if, and only if, the Weights-and-Measures badge-toter wants it to. [The laws on the subject were written for the commercially-licensed world by politicians with little, if any, actual first-hand knowledge of towing anything heavier than a bass boat. ]

 

[NIsaacs]

What is the max. GCWR for a Dodge

That depends on the year and model of the truck. In 1994, a Cummins equipped Dodge 2500 or 3500 DRW, was 16,000-18,000 GCWR, depending on the rear axle ratio. In 2002, the same equipped trucks are, 20,000 GCWR, any rear axle ratio. The HO 3500 SRW or DRW w/4. 10 axle ratio, is good to 21,500 GCWR. I think the new trucks are up around 23,000 now. These ratings are Dodge based, so you can see how "goofy" they are. Why would a 2500 be rated the same as a 3500 DRW? What is the difference between a 1994 and a 2002? Why would the rear axle ratio make any difference, based on just safety? There is a big difference between what Dodge says and what the DOT wants. So what is the max GCWR of the Dodge..... ???? In my mind, it's a "bunch"





"NICK"

 

[XJSuperman]

So to make this long story short... let me see if I understand correctly:



For someone like me... who would be towing an RV of some sort... I need to go by the GCWR for the truck?





BUT if I were 'towing for hire' as it were... and had a 'commercial license'... I could tow based on the GAWR of the truck as long as I was 'rated' to tow that amount of weight? As well as be within the load limit of the tires???



With that said how does the GAWR of the 'average dodge' compare with the same truck's GCWR? I do understand that you would also need to know the GAWR of your trailer as well... . ???

 

[RMcCulloch]

DC says that the GVWR and, especially, the GCWR are based upon "Performance" and not, as was often the case, the point of failure of some part.



The "Tow Rating" (not the GVWR or GCWR) can actually be HIGHER for a 2500 than for a 3500 (and, on some trucks, has actually been) if the GCWR is based upon how fast the truck can accellerate with a given load behind it since the lighter the truck the higher the "Tow Rating". That accelleration rate is a factor of the engine power, and the transmission, transfer case (for a 4WD), and differential gearing.



What criteria is DC using? I'd suspect (based upon how my bone-stock truck handles my 14,100 fifth-wheel) that it's based upon their competetors' Press Releases: "Just add ___ lbs to their numbers - our truck will pull more weight. " Proof may come soon since FMC has, recently, claimed ~24K for some of theirs. If DC suddenly "finds" an extra 1500 - 2000 lbs of GCWR...

 

[hammersley]

OK - I guess it's a ????

Hey - unlike some folks I can learn - and I guess what the commercial guys are saying is that you can tow a very heavy trailer - apparently above what the RV folks can... . My next question is then it appears that with a CDL you could haul almost any size RV with a 2500 or 3500? Am I wrong?????

 

[JimB1]

Thanks EB and RMcCulloch for calling out weight issues that's had me plenty confused. Please give me a yes or no on whether my following thinking is correct. Does 26000 lb. and below fit into non-CDL category and no weight scale stops when "not for hire"? EB (CDL and for hire) has his 3500 DRW licensed AND insured at 14500 lb. GVWR. Can I license AND insure my 3500 DRW at 14500 lb. GVWR AND 26000 lb GCWR in a non-CDL not for hire, RV type catagory? Assume all the loading issues of axle, tire, hitch stay within their limits but throw out the 410 gear issue and use 373. Taking off fast and holding 70 mph up long steep grades is of no importance to me. I also acknowledge Dodge warranty issues when their "performance GVWR/GCWR" limits are exceeded. If all this can work for both license and insurance then my retirement RV purchase looks do-able. Dodge 3500 DRW with max. size Bigfoot slide-in, full tanks all around and enough LICENSED and INSURED vehicle weight rating left over to carry hitch weight on 11500 lb enclosed car trailer. 26000 GCWR works out to 14500 GVWR leaves 11500 lb allowable for trailer, and if memory serves I recall 12K as max limit for Class 5 bumper hitch. Have also seen the nose-wheel option on trailers and owners loved them, tho' they don't add to GCWR. Don't want to go Ford or Chevy just to get into a 4500/5500 vehicle in order to carry these weights and then lose the Cummins motor option. Thanks for your help, Jim.

 

[EB]

I don't know what state you are in but in Texas you can increase your licensed weight by simply going into your county tax office and "buying your license" up to the weight you want, within reason. Below 26,000 is considered to be non- CDL weight, I don't know anything about the "not for hire" stickers. Your best bet for finding out is to go to your local state drivers license office or stop by a weigh station and ask some questions. The license and weight guys in Texas will talk to you if they aren't to busy. There is always a license guy in the drivers license office and they would probably answer your questions. That is what I would do if I had questions, go to the people that enforce the rules. I can't give you a yes or no answer, and I really don't think a board like this is really the place to get information like that unless someone is a DOT officer or a retired one and really knows. That is my opinion, for what it's worth.