What is water injection

[JKloppe]

I have a bet with my friend on what it is.
Please clarify how and why it works.

Thanks
Jordan

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99 2500 4x4 QC, auto
cowl hood,strait pipe,Armorthane bedliner

 

[Jeff H]

Ya just spray water into the intake. Keeps egt's down for the really wild beast.

 

[Chad Sheets]

3 things. 1st it is a NOX reducer (EPA stuff). 2nd it is an EGT reducer. 3rd it is a power enhancer.

Heres how it works. Water is injected into the combustion chamber at the top of the compression stroke pretty much when the fuel is being injected. This water, (fine vapors) takes up space in the combustion chamber which raises compression ratios since the water cant be compressed. It then cools the EGT's, which also gets rid of the NOX polutants.

Nox's are the evil things the EPA hates diesels for. The only way to get rid of them is to cool the combustion temps, but to do that any other way would result in a diesel running too low of combustion temps, which would result in unburnt fuel vapors exiting into the atmosphere. A cant win position for the diesel industry. Water injection is being researched to cure this problem.

The tractor pullers are who people associate water injection with. Alot of them use it for the increased compression ratios, and cooler EGT's to keep from melting anything.

Not sure what your friends were telling you, but you have something to tell them now.

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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple Black, 340 car w/air. Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, shaker hood, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member. http://www.geocities.com/chadsheets

[This message has been edited by Chad Sheets (edited 01-23-2001). ]

 

[drawson]

Chad you forgot that it also become steam after the combustion which expands to more volume(lots) than just the air fuel mixture. The trick is getting the amount correct... . Too much put out the flame and too little doesn't have hardly any effect.

It also will keep the combustion chamber clean and the injector tip.

The effect will be the greatest in dry climates and with highly bombed engines with really high EGTs.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

On my Super stock Diesel tractor I induce LOTS of water! This is on a 436 ci International harvester I6 engine. 3 turbochargers 160 to 180 p. s. i. manifold pressure. On a typical 20 second run it will burn about 3 gallons of diesel and use about 1 gallon of water. Even then the egt's will run wild. Without the water the egt would melt pistons before it would leave the line. We are injecting (I would rather call it induceing) water into the intake manifold between the 1st and 2nd stages between the 2nd and 3rd stages and also at 6 intake port nozzles. The water is pressureised to about 1800 p. s. i. It increases as boost goes up. The water flashes to steam in the intake and cools the charge air. (cooler air is denser) so you can burn more fuel. The steam then cools the combustion chamber and adds power by expansion. In the exhaust manifold it then adds volume and spins the turbochargers faster. On your pickup you wouldnt have to be so exotic. A simple windshield washer pump on a pressure switch (on at 25# pressure) and a small nozzle before the turbo compressor wheel. I am currently induceing methinol alcohol on a relitivley stock diesel engine and the results spectacular.

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1995 2500 5 spd US Gear 2 speed,PackBrake, bombed,big turbo, injectors CUMMINS POWER!!. 2001 ETH 3500 PackBrake, gagues,otherwise stock. 1972 "1066" International Harvester 414 ci diesel pulling tractor, big pump,turbo and injectors. Alcohol injection,BINDER POWER!! .
GONZO

 

[Chad Sheets]

So, you are "lacing" the intake air with water?? Why are you doing that (if you are?) and not injecting it directly into the combustion chamber?

The only water system I ever saw working was on a tractor that had the 12 cylinder fuel pump on an I6, and a special head that had nozzles/injectors in it beside the diesel injectors, to squirt the water in the combustion chamber. I talked to the guy about it, and I believe he was injecting it in after fuel injection, then as boost rose, the water injection timing was advanced to before fuel injection. Sound familiar?

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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple Black, 340 car w/air. Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, shaker hood, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member. http://www.geocities.com/chadsheets

 

[drawson]

Robert, Alcohol & water that sound scary are your intake heaters working? Two summers ago I had a make shift water injection system on my truck pumping it in preturbo. I was only bombed with a #12 TST plate at the time . 085 forward from stock and a K&N filter. Pulling my house trailer with a boat behind going up a 5. 5% grade in injected it starting at 1250 deg and drop the EGT to 950 fast and was able to back out of the throttle and maintain speed. This summer I was going to hook it back up with a Hobbs switch that Adam (MY6EATSV8) told me about but I didn't ever get around to it. Next summer I'll give it another run.

Chad FYI both air cooled bombers and fighter of WW2 ran water injection which was injected in preturbo for take off boost and boost while in a dog fight. The B29 went through like 30 gallon per engine on take off.

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EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, Rad fan removed, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

 

[JKloppe]

Thanks for all or your replies! I lost the bet, I would not believe that water could be introduced into the combustion Chamber. I now know that it can be done and understand how.

P. S. I only lost a couple dollars.
Thanks
Jordan

 

[BFaoro]

WOW #ad
#ad
#ad
some things people do to make a tractor pull a two bottom plow #ad
Robert I will take on your tractor with my two tractors #ad
One is a 42 Ford 8N the other is a 40 H Farmall !! ha ha They couldn't haul the water yours uses #ad


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96 2500 4X4, SC,SLT, 12 valve,lost kitty 5SP 3. 54. line-x liner All stock (for now)

 

[C Schomer]

Water expands about 1710 to 1 when it vaporizes. Cheap bang! It absorbs 970 btu's/lb to change to vapor.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Chad; If you inject directly into the combustion chamber you would loose he coolig effect in the manifold. Any time you cmpress air it heats. Feel how cold the air is when you let air out of your tires. And that is only 40 to 50 psi. The turbocharger is an amazing devise but it is not 100% efficent and there is where the heat comes in the less efficent the more heat the turbo will generate compressing air. The intake manifold on my nearly stock IH without alcocol gets hot enough to melt plastic wire looming. That is only at 40 psi. There would be some high pressure pump lubrication issues on a combustion chamber injection system. It may be in use but I havnt seen or heard of one. I would be very cautious on injecting alcohol on a kind of stock dodge 5. 9 cummins because of the heater grid. If it was coupled to a Hobbs switch (on at 25 or 30# manifold pressure you shouldnt have a problem. There are many ways to screw up on a water induction system. But when it works the benifits are great. You may want to pick up Hugh Machinnes book "Turbochargers" It is a great reference guide it may be a bit dated but has lots of good info on water and multi turbo setups.

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1995 2500 5 spd US Gear 2 speed,PackBrake, bombed,big turbo, injectors CUMMINS POWER!!. 2001 ETH 3500 PackBrake, gagues,otherwise stock. 1972 "1066" International Harvester 414 ci diesel pulling tractor, big pump,turbo and injectors. Alcohol injection,BINDER POWER!! .
GONZO

 

[Chad Sheets]

Hey I learned something!! Great inf. . I would love to hang out with some of you pullers who know how to make REAL diesel power.

If they would have taught diesel mechanics and theories in high school I would have been a perfect A++ student. Thanks for the knowledge guys. I'm sure I will think some questions up for you guys soon. Thanks again.

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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple Black, 340 car w/air. Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, shaker hood, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member. http://www.geocities.com/chadsheets

 

[illflem]

Robert,seeing as you are from WA that must mean there are pulls around here. I never hear of any on the eastside,could you clue me in?

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Lack of pulls is one of the reasons we just sold our Super Stocker #ad
#ad
#ad
. I pulled at Spokane fairgrounds here in Lynden and hauled to a pull near Salem Oregon (Sublimity). The other reason for selling was purely $$. LOTS of upkeep on a rig ilke that (somewhere around 1700 H. P. ) #ad
It is now in Missouri and going to pull some national meets. My current "farm" tractor has a 414 ci IH engine and is in the 350 hp range, stock hp was 125. I will pull at an antique show grounds and at the Northwest washington fair here at Lynden Wa. We may be at Sublimity and Yakama in
September. I dont think I will make the trip to Spokane in August. I have to make a living too after all. The tractors have been a nostalgic hobby, I used to pull when I lived in Wisconsin. I am currently trying to get an all Diesel class started here in the Northwest.

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1995 2500 5 spd US Gear 2 speed,PackBrake, bombed,big turbo, injectors CUMMINS POWER!!. 2001 ETH 3500 PackBrake, gagues,otherwise stock. 1972 "1066" International Harvester 414 ci diesel pulling tractor, big pump,turbo and injectors. Alcohol injection,BINDER POWER!! .
GONZO