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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) What the best LP fix

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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission cat or resonator??

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I'm a first Gen. owner but my buddy has a 99' 24v 5 speed truck. He has been running 275's,TST pm3,4"straight exhaust. He recently installed 3 guages on the pillar (i know we should have done that first)fuel pressure is 5psi idling,4psi at 60mph,and 0psi at WOT. We were thinking a new lift pump and moving it by the tank might help. It is easier to push fuel as opposed to pulling it. Is this a beneficial move. Also curiuos about drilling banjos to 9/32or just running all new braided lines. Any ideas or better solutions would be greatly appreciated



Thanks
 
You'll get answers from all over the map - but unless he's motivated, and doesn't mind improvising, one of the complete kits like the popular FASS setup is his best bet - a low dollar way is to pick up a Carter 4600 pusher pump, install it back near the tank, wire it up thru a relay controlled by the stock LP, and that's about it - the backyard job will run roughly $100 - the kits are half again that and on up...



More details on request...
 
Improvising and building the setup shouldn't be a problem we just want to do the best jos with $$$'s in mind. thought you guys would all be in the same boat
 
I really like my set-up. Getting some unreal pressures. Did this in preparation fo tapping the wire on the Drag Comp and installing new injectors.



Holley Blue mounted near tank, above skid plate cross member, improvised Wildcat Max Flow System (8an from tank to VP). No lift pump, fuel filter in stock location.



I can't claim any longevity with this, as I have been running for a total of about 7 days. Initial readings - 24 idle, 19 cruise, 15 wot. The numbers got gradually higher over first two days... . :--)



Matt
 
Gary-

You've been extremely knowledgeable in the past, but I'm going to have to call you on the FASS system. I agree that the FASS and the Preporator offer some fantastic theory, but we are running real world here rather than just white papers. I will not argue with you, that if your sole purpose is fuel flow, either system is probably the best bet. However, longevity is the one thing that has yet to be proven by either system (in my mind). If, either system can really maintain the claims, then why doesn't either offer a warranty of more than 2-years. Replacing OEM pumps (purchased from Cummins) gets me at least that time period for only $140 and less than 30-minutes of my time. I've seen the solutions come, and I've seen them go. Give me the evidence, and I'll order one today.



As far as pusher pumps go, adding an additional pump to the system will just blow away any MTBF formula that you use. I think that I will stick with my present plan and just move the OEM pump back to the fuel tank. As the results come in, I will then re-evaluate my conclusion. C'mon FASS and Preporator, show me the numbers! :)
 
carter

The 4601HP is the 15psi pump.



I've been informed on this board in other threads that our lift pumps are 15psi variety.



SummitRacing.com is a great source for these pumps.



CRT-P4600HP (7psi) and CRT-P4601HP (15psi) are the part numbers. both are 100 gph rated pumps.

3/8" npt fittings.
 
OK, I'll open this up:



I think it is a (fuel) SYSTEM approach, no one thing is a cure all.



I use the OEM lp, and



1. move the lp back by the tank and frame mount so it is gravity feed and can push rather than suck

2. larger lines with few bends, any bends with XXX fittings (an-6, probably should have used an-8, Aeroquip)

3. add lubricity and water seperation to ALL fuel (Stanadyne blue)

4. get ALL water out and as clean as fuel as you can possibly provide (RACOR 690 pre lp 10 micron filter, leave OEM fuel filter pre VP)

5. if you use the OEM lp put a Mallory 4307m bypass regulator post lp (to keep the check valve ball closed and eliminate that failure point)

6. lots of dielectric grease in the lp electrical connectors so they conduct well and stay clean (to eliminate that failure point)

7. carry a spare lp and tools (it will fail eventually)

8. keep reading lp threads for whatever else you can do (I just added #6 due to recent threads)



Bob Weis
 
I'm a fan of a single fuel pump, by the tank, with plenty of filtration before and after the lift pump ( no filtration after the pump is never an option). I've had great pressure stability and maintain values in the 14's and 15's at all times.



I dont have one... but the Preporator site describes millions of Class 8 truck miles with their units. That points to or says something about longevity don't it? Looks like Preporator is coming out with something more suited towards the pickup market. Would be interesting to see.



Fuel Preporator "Air Dog"
 
I second the motion -



lp by the tank, lots of filtration before and after



My problem is I have 30k on this OEM lp and have it fairly well protected and expect a lot of miles out of it, THEN I have a spare new OEM lp that should give another a lot of miles. Do shelf spares EVER go bad? Maybe I'll take the spare OEM lp to "Antiques Road Show" as an antique in 10 years to see if it has antique value.



At this rate I'll not be able to do what ever the "AirDog" is until 500k miles then I'll need to rebuild the engine anyway.



In 20 years (25k / year) there might not even be internal combustion engines or diesel - shudder the thought (pun intended)



ATBGO (And The Beat Goes On)



Bob Weis
 
Has anyone made up a good set of work instruction for moving the factory pump? I feel that I need to replace #2 and I don't really want to put it back up on the engine, and I don't want to pay for a FASS.
 
Neil,



Thanks for the intro. As we discuss the pro's and conn's of fuel supply systems for diesel engines, lets look at the details of just what is required of the delivery and filtration system to meet the needs of the diesel.



First: The fuel must be filtered to a level that prevents any damage to the fuel injection system components. All contaminates must be considered. Not just the usual, water and particulate contaminates, but vapor and entrained air, probably the worst of all contaminates as stated by the Milwaukee School Of Engineering.



Second: The fuel must be delivered to the engine lift pump at a pressure flow rate that exceeds the demand of the pump at any operating rate. Let's look at this a little closer. The industry standard in rating the efficiency of a filtration/supply system has in the past always been the "vacuum" rating. Such as, this filter only pulls a ?? vacuum at a ?? flow. A pump is a positive flow mechanism. The pressure/flow needed to fill it (at any speed) can be calculated. Vacuum is the pressure drop from ambient caused by the restriction of the system and has nothing to do with the needs of the pump. In fact, vacuum rates the deficiency of the system not the efficiency of the system. This is a new concept to fuel systems!!!!



Third: The system must be monitored for performance in a manner to allow the operator of the equipment to know when to obtain service before the engine performance degrades.



To date, all of the filtrations and lift pump setups have had to operate under the "inefficiency" rating method or "vacuum feed" system. NEW technology is here! The Fuel Preporator filters fuel for water, particulates and air/vapor without sacrificing engine performance. The Preporator also maintains a more than adequate pressure/flow to the engine lift pump or injection system to eliminate cavation and the vapors produced. The Preporator pressure flow can be set for the needs of the different engines.



System longevity: Fuel Preporator has gone through 14 years of development. Originally using over the counter "after market" fuel pumps that either had inadequate and un-servicable screens and finding that either the electrics were to light duty to handle diesel or the screens would plug up and block or jam the mechanism. The decision was made to develop our own proprietary pump. A heavy duty electric motor was selected that had the bearings, heavy duty and servicable commutator and very heavy duty brushes to give the service time. The design incorporated the higher efficiency of the Gearotor. Also, the internal design incorporates a special feature that maintains the pump shaft seal under a vacuum instead of a pressure (other pumps operate with the seal under a pressure). These features (heavy duty commutator, brushes and vacuum seal feature) extend the life of the Preporator pump beyond the capability of most or probably all of the other "aftermarket" pumps.



Tests for function: The Preporator has been tested by numeruous universities (and found to function as advertised), government agencies ( and found to function as advertised), numeruous mining corporations ( and found to function as advertised and reduce exhaust emissions), tested by Japan's Ministry of Transportation and passed their 15 mode transient emission test on a vehicle that was taken out of service for failing the test previously. Fuel Preporator has been issued an Executive Order by CARB and is legal for sale and use in California. The list goes on and on.



The Preporator is the "Real Deal", we are designing new products to meet the fuel needs of all diesel engines. One step at a time. Call for additional info at 1-877-463-4373 or visit us online at www.ekstamworldwide.com.



Thanks,



Charlie
 
HEH HEH HEH... ;)



Like I said, LOTS of answers! :p :p



And actually, probably ALL correct - for THAT specific individual, his use, expectations and expertise level...



I would never trust a single pump on my truck, because so far, they have ALL failed at one time or another, or WILL! And probably at the worse time and place. For ME, the dual pump setup was easy enough, relatively inexpensive, and HAS brought me home when ONE of the pumps DID quit on me out in the middle of nowhere - but that is just MY opinion and level of expectation. Other guys aren't the experimenter I am, don't have the mechanical backround, workspace, tools or inclination to mess with this stuff as I do - for them, a ready-made setup is still FAR preferable to NOTHING - gotta cover all the bases - and so far, we're getting there! ;) :p
 
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