What the heck is up with Dodge or is this Dealer just useless??????

[cerberusiam]

Long story short, at 213k injectors are making some noises that concern me. Going to replace them, but, I am curious about what the standard tests would show. So call Landmark Dodge to schedule 2 tests, cylinder contribution and injector return flow. I would have asked about a balance test but that did not happen after the discussion on the other 2.



It seems this dealer will no longer do the injector return flow test on the truck. They pull the injectors and send them off to be tested to the tune of $800. Seems the diesel does not know how to run the test or is forbidden to do so. If the injectors test bad then you have the choice of over priced remans from this source or junk from the dealer. Thats not what I asked, I wanted the injector return flow test ON the truck to see how they responded as-installed. They don't do that anymore.



Ok, skip that. I can do that with a a little shuffling and a couple of fittings. On to the cylinder contribution test. They are not sure but think thta has been removed from the WiTech so they cannot run it anymore. WTH????? Did corporate remove all the tools a dealer used to have to diagnose things, or, is this one place ot run not walk away from??? Dealer techs, any idea what is going on???



On a side note, they wanted me to drop the truck off at 7 AM and maybe they would get to it that day or not. No appointment, just leave it and we will get to it whenever. Anybody wonder WHY the dealer experience is lacking???



The ultimate question is this, is there a reasonably priced tool that will run cylinder contribution and balance tests on a the pre-06 non-CAN trucks? I have had 2 people tell me AutoEnginuity has it in the menu and it doesn't work. Response from the vendor was they would take it under advisement. Geez, sounds like a dealer again. Anything else anyone has used that has these tests that work? Anybody got the AutoEnginuity to work and on what year truck?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I have run the cylinder contribution test on WiTech. Just realize that other factors influence each cylinder's performance, so a low cylinder may not be due totally (or at all) to an injector. It would be best to pull them and send to a good Bosch shop like DDP, of course.

 

[cerberusiam]

Yep, well aware the interpretation of cylinder contribution has complentary factors that may or may not be obvious. Just wanting a baseline on injectors falling in the range where they can be expected to need assessed for replacement. I have 213k on mostly stock filtration with constant use of additives. I wanted those test results, an an injector return flow test as installed, and a balance test if possible for comparisons. The injector return flow test I can emulate close to what Cummins recommended but the other 2 are software specific.

If they were going to DDP or Exergy for testing that would be another result worth obtaining, not the case though which introduces unknowns into the equation. The search continues for reasonably priced software or a shop thta will do what I want. Waiting for a call back from Garmons to see what he can do.

 

[Wayne M.]

Mr. Donnelly, I have run the contribution test on my truck with the DRB III. I did observe over and under 100% and don't recall weather it was companion cyl or not. But I was always searching for the reason and just assumed engine dynamics. What are the limits on that test?

If I knew AE or any other did the various Chrysler and Cummins tests, I would invest. I feel the return volume test is a good method for checking injector flow, but is time consuming. That's why a piecework guy won't want to do it. Prolly pays nil.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The test sets the mean (or average; not sure which) at 100% and then the other cylinders are above or below it. Ring seal, valve seal, injector performance are three obvious contributors to cylinder contribution.

 

[cerberusiam]

You have to read the percentages in firing order or they don't make sense. Bad injectors in the first or last cylinder in the firing do not always show in the sequence correctly either. The algoritm assumes 100% and then yanks fueling way back 2 cylinders later because the ECU attempts correction on every cylinder event(s). Usually a 2% spread is normal and good but just because one or 2 say 101% does not mean they are. Two 101% in a row and a drop to 96% with the other all running 99-100% is usually 1 or 2 over fueling but you don't know which ones until you swap holes, or, if it is a failing solenoid or sticky pintle. Number one reason why running CRC or SeaFoam or other cleaner thru THEN run the contribution test is recommended. Cuts down on some of the guess work.

Anybody seen on a balance test on the DRBII like EFI is capable of running? I could have swore it was on there but don't remeber which one I was looking at now.

 

[Wayne M.]

You have to read the percentages in firing order or they don't make sense. Bad injectors in the first or last cylinder in the firing do not always show in the sequence correctly either. The algoritm assumes 100% and then yanks fueling way back 2 cylinders later because the ECU attempts correction on every cylinder event(s). Usually a 2% spread is normal and good but just because one or 2 say 101% does not mean they are. Two 101% in a row and a drop to 96% with the other all running 99-100% is usually 1 or 2 over fueling but you don't know which ones until you swap holes, or, if it is a failing solenoid or sticky pintle. Number one reason why running CRC or SeaFoam or other cleaner thru THEN run the contribution test is recommended. Cuts down on some of the guess work.

Anybody seen on a balance test on the DRBII like EFI is capable of running? I could have swore it was on there but don't remeber which one I was looking at now.

That makes sense. I'm getting to the age where I should yank em. That's the only thing (injectors) I'm fretting about at this point.
On the DRB, I didn't see any balance test except for the contribution test and IIRC, a cylinder kill. It's been a while.

 

[S.Morris]

I have found with the fleet of Dodges that we run, that on a completely stock engine and fuel system the 5. 9 CR's usually start acting up at +/- 6000hrs. Odometers have all been different but hrs on 3 different trucks close enough to show a pattern at around 6000hrs

 

[JLandry]

Anybody seen on a balance test on the DRBII like EFI is capable of running? I could have swore it was on there but don't remeber which one I was looking at now.

There's reference to a DRBIII being used for a cylinder balance test in a Chrysler training manual, so I once went looking for it in my own DRBIII but couldn't find it. Thinking I must just be overlooking it, I also checked the DRBIII instruction and feature guides but couldn't find any mention of the test there.



My conclusion is the cylinder balancing test must've been in the DRBIII at one time, but possibly was removed due to lack of use by dealerships and the need to make room for other programming in the DRBIII's very limited internal memory.



John L.

 

[cerberusiam]

My conclusion is the cylinder balancing test must've been in the DRBIII at one time, but possibly was removed due to lack of use by dealerships and the need to make room for other programming in the DRBIII's very limited internal memory.

That is getting to be the norm from the sounds of it. Useful stuff is being removed to limit the potential for doing or telling something to the customer that might actually help them. After conversations with 2 dealers it is totally depressing as far as any diagnostic work. It would seem they have truly gone to being parts replacers and outsourcing anything of a truly technical diagnostic service. At least around here, other places may be different yet.