What tuner on my cummins 600?

[Cummins724]

Has anyone tried the Bullydog triple dog / outlook tuner on the 600 cummins? Is crazy Larry really Crazy? How would you rate it? Is the TST better? Any others I should look at?

 

[TX Gooseneck]

A friend of mine has a 600 with the crazy larry (48re) and seems to really like it. He wants to try it on my truck to see what it'll do, but I just don't have the fuel right now. Once the FASS is on and clutch is in, I'll probably pick one up. I'm curious how much it smokes. His is a quick puff and then clean, but does seem to come on very quick.

 

[TSpecht]

I've got no personal experience with downloaders, but there's been some talk about warranty issues with downloaders due to changing critical data such as key cycles and so forth, which one wouldn't have with an actual box that plugs in rather than reprogramming.


I do have personal experience with the TST, and even on the lower levels it's significantly better than stock. What other mods do you have in mind besides a box or programmer?

 

[Cummins724]

Some injectors, Turbo, more air improvements. This truck is going as far as possible, I got beat by a honda & it ain't happening again. I called Doug at Advance diesel technology & he got me the bullydog, but before installing it, I just wanted to get the scoop on crazy Larry because my friend said take it back before it is too late. He says it doesn't impress him, he says TST is the best. [he is probably full of it again, so we'll see tomorrow] thanks for the info guys.

 

[JVolpe]

I have both, Bully Dog Triple Dog with the Crazy Larry update and the TST R49(w/twins program). I also have the HOT Juice/Attitude, an EZ and couple other things somewhere in the garage.



I don't like downloaders, just my personal experience with computers in general. My first Triple Dog died after first plug in. The second one has been ok, but still had issues trying to remove programs and go back to stock.



My recommendation is the TST, I think it is a better choice than the BDDL Crazy Larry/Outlook and will make more usable and controllable power. Just my personal experience and opinion.

 

[AK RAM]

My vote would normally be the TST also. However, you mentioned injectors. If you plan on the cheaper honed injectors, they will work better with the downloader than they will with the TST box. The extra pressure that you get with the downloader will get you better horsepower gains than duration alone with honed sticks.

 

[Cummins724]

Well today I installed it and I am really happy with it. It gives hp. & lbft. readings at all times, at one point i saw 1200 lbft of torque. Only downfall I see is EGT's were approaching 1250, but a turbo should take care of that. As far as smoke I can punch the peddle & it blows a nice cloud at a stop light, but going down the road only in second do I see a cloud [a little puff here and there in other gears] Hondas here I come!

 

[TX Gooseneck]

1250 pre or post turbo? If that is pre, that isn't bad. I see well higher than that.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

AK, Is the BDDL timing/duration/and pressure?? I'm trying to stay away from pressure boxes.

 

[Cummins724]

That is pre turbo, but today I saw 1450 on hills lugging.

 

[ECappleman]

That is pre turbo, but today I saw 1450 on hills lugging.

Was that unloaded?

 

[AK RAM]

AK, Is the BDDL timing/duration/and pressure?? I'm trying to stay away from pressure boxes.

Yeah, it does all three. No pressure with the "Tow" program. Moderate pressure with the "Performance" program. Lots of pressure with the "Extreme" program.

 

[JCleary]

Yeah, it does all three. No pressure with the "Tow" program. Moderate pressure with the "Performance" program. Lots of pressure with the "Extreme" program.

I talked to a technical guy yesterday about their use of pressure. He swore up and down that they do not use pressure, that it's all timing/duration. He said if anyone was telling me anything else, they were lying.



Funny thing, because a guy I talked to (at the same number) told me that pressure was only used only in the Extreme and Crazy Larry settings.



Then, another person on TDR (who sells Bully Dog) says it increases rail pressure in all settings, but only by 500-1000 psi.



Funny thing, this proprietary knowledge. No one wants you to know what they're doing to your truck.



I guess I'm going to buck up and get a SPA rail pressure gauge and report my findings as soon as I am able.

 

[rjohnson916]

My vote is Edge-Juice/ Attitude. I’ve got version 1. 1 and have a few gremlins going on with the box, but while it worked right, I loved it. I like the compact size, and ability to pretty much mount the monitor anywhere in the cab. Ease of installation, and cleanliness of kit. The added power and smoothness of power delivery are incredible, even on a truck that is pretty much stock. The slight increase in mpg is also welcoming.



The things I don’t like about the Edge-Juice/ Attitude...



1) The unit I have worked fine for about 1 month. Now my 5x5 setting is non excitant. Also I can’t check the records settings anymore, and when I first start the truck I get a message “Boost Alert” but my analog autometer gauge tells me my boost is fine. However on the freeway, I’m getting intermittent surges in boost readings, when stepping on the throttle. e. g. sometimes 22 psi sometimes 35 psi + ??? really confusing, although the truck drives and doesn’t feel like anything is wrong, and the truck isn’t throwing any codes. Definitely leads me to believe it’s the Edge. I have a new one on order, supposed to be an updated version, should be in on Thursday 12/22.



2) I’m not a fan of the small buttons on the monitor. Only ideal for a four year olds fingers.



3) The warm-up period or cold-engine protection takes way to long. I’m already at work usually before the truck is warm enough for the Box to work.



4) I wish the backlighting could be changed to match the rest of the Dodges interior backlighting, the blueish glow does not match anything.











-Ryan

 

[AK RAM]

I talked to a technical guy yesterday about their use of pressure. He swore up and down that they do not use pressure, that it's all timing/duration. He said if anyone was telling me anything else, they were lying.

All I can tell you is that on my truck, the Extreme program appears to raise rail pressure 3,000 psi across the board. Stock, it bounces between 3,200 and 3,500 psi at idle. With the BDDL on extreme, it will bounce around between 6,000 and 6,500 psi at idle. At WOT, I see between 23,000 to 23,500 psi stock. BDDL on Extreme, I see between 26,000 to 26,500 psi at WOT, which is the max for the sensor, so it conceivably could he higher, the sensor just can't display anything higher. I'd say it does plenty of pressure.

 

[JCleary]

All I can tell you is that on my truck, the Extreme program appears to raise rail pressure 3,000 psi across the board. Stock, it bounces between 3,200 and 3,500 psi at idle. With the BDDL on extreme, it will bounce around between 6,000 and 6,500 psi at idle. At WOT, I see between 23,000 to 23,500 psi stock. BDDL on Extreme, I see between 26,000 to 26,500 psi at WOT, which is the max for the sensor, so it conceivably could he higher, the sensor just can't display anything higher. I'd say it does plenty of pressure.

WOW!



You're not kidding. That is quite a bit of pressure.



I wonder what that downloader does to trucks running the Crazy Larry, particularly when stacked with a pressure box. That relief valve must be screaming for mercy.



What are the pressure readings like in tow/economy and performance modes?

 

[AK RAM]

Nothing measurable on Tow. On Performance, I see high 24's at WOT. Pretty big step in pressure between Performance and Extreme. Remember though, when the BDDL first came out, we were seeing 160rwhp increases on SO engines via Extreme at the dyno. The BDDL programs are a little different for each truck. The Extreme program on the SOs were responding a lot better than the Extreme program on the HOs. Maybe not as much pressure on yours. Just guessing.

 

[JCleary]

Nothing measurable on Tow. On Performance, I see high 24's at WOT. Pretty big step in pressure between Performance and Extreme. Remember though, when the BDDL first came out, we were seeing 160rwhp increases on SO engines via Extreme at the dyno. The BDDL programs are a little different for each truck. The Extreme program on the SOs were responding a lot better than the Extreme program on the HOs. Maybe not as much pressure on yours. Just guessing.

I think there's a difference between the Dodge-specific BDDL and the Triple Dog. I bought the Triple-Dog, as they advertised that it stores the truck's stock programming. Basically you're not re-loading their generic stock program when you return to stock.



The top HP/TQ increase advertised for the T-Dog for SO/HO trucks is 113hp/130tq on extreme, something like 66/90 on tow. Much less than the older units, I think.



I originally ran version 2. 0. 4, and the extreme and performance settings actually felt the same as tow, but smoked less than tow.



Now I have version 2. 2. 2, and it smokes more on all settings, but doesn't feel any stronger.



One interesting thing is that when I run the BDDL on stock, it feels weaker than having the BDDL unloaded from the ECM.



I may be done with downloaders here pretty soon, unless Marco's Smarty proves to be a good unit. I just have to find a dealer to re-flash a stock program into my ECM. I wonder how much that will cost?

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Yikes! May throw me towards the TST.

 

[Cummins724]

Was that unloaded?

Yes that was unloaded, but today I had 4 ton behind me and had bddl set on performance tow & saw 1500* sometimes higher. how much is safe egt's I thought it was 1250* pre turbo. If so I'm gonna have to tow on stock [if my pyro is not bad], but i think it is giving false readings. How high does yours go when towing?