What will happen to my 48RE????

[mfrost]

If I put a Banks EB on 04. 5, what will happen to my stock 48RE with 59K on it. Of course Banks says that they haven't had any problems with it and Chrysler didn't bless the EB on the auto untill 06. Any experience out there? Thanks

 

[kompressor]

I have had a Pac Brake on my 04 for three years and no problems. Really works great on those long down hills, I know it is saving my service brakes.

 

[Missouri Mule]

There should be away to put a lockup switch(lockup the torque convertor) on it like they did with the 47re in the 2nd gen trucks. Try doing a search.

 

[HBarlow]

If you install something that will lock the torque converter when the exhaust brake is activated your truck will probably work great.

The problem you are talking about is Cummins engineers performed exhaustive testing back in 2003 throught 2005 before authorizing use of the Jacobs exhaust brake as a factory option. They discovered that a reverse thrust washer in the 48RE automatic transmission was subject to early failure because it was not designed to tolerate exhaust braking.

Cummins-Dodge factory testing is usually based on 100,000 miles of service, the length of the engine warranty. The transmission testing may have been based on fewer miles because Dodge doesn't warranty the transmission for that many miles.

You'll have to decide for yourself. Lots of owners have used exhaust brakes on trucks like yours. I don't know what their failure rate is. IMO it is safe to assume that Banks is more interested in selling their products than the life of your 48RE.

 

[Regcabguy]

I'd contact DTT Performance Diesel Transmission and Power Accessories. about their Smart Controller. It automatically locks/unlocks the tq with the eb. Stefan may recommend some internal upgrades for longevity also. I had a Pacbrake w/Smart Controller on my '98. 5. It worked as designed.

 

[cerberusiam]

You will need this to make the brake work correctly and save the transmission, BD Power - Product: PressureLoc.



Would not hurt to do some upgrades to the trans to help it work better and hold when braking. The thrust washer scare was more hype than anything else, the 04. 5 units should already have the upgraded thrust washers installed.

 

[HBarlow]

The post above directly contradicts what a Cummins engineer posted here in the TDR forum regarding the reverse thrust issue.

Each member considering adding an exhaust brake to his pre-06 48RE can make his own choice. Personally, I would take the word of the Cummins engineer written in old TDR threads over the word of the above.

 

[mfrost]

Thanks for all the input. The thrust washer has been talking point since I got my truck. To clarify my question, What specifically would happen if the thrust washer was to wear. Would there be a point where casing, gears,etc would be damaged so it wouldn't be rebuildable and what are the symtoms of a bad thrust washer.



It would seem to me that is the washer was proper lubricated and fluid was changed as recommended then it should last for a long time



Did the 04 and 04. 5 have the same thrust washer??

 

[cerberusiam]

The post above directly contradicts what a Cummins engineer posted here in the TDR forum regarding the reverse thrust issue.

A Cummins engineer posting valid info about a Dodge transmission? I think not. If said person did it was a personal opinion about the potential NOT an absolute. Cummins engineers won't be cornered about the engine let alone a 3rd part drive train piece.

To clarify my question, What specifically would happen if the thrust washer was to wear. Would there be a point where casing, gears,etc would be damaged so it wouldn't be rebuildable and what are the symtoms of a bad thrust washer.

Excessive wear of the thrust washer COULD eventually cause transmission failure, after approxiately 100,000 to 1,000,000 miles. Choose a number.



IF you could find a failure that could be directly attributed to thrust washer failure, the chances that ti would be from excessive use of the EB are remote to say the least. On a stock transmission you will burn the direct clutches and smoke the TC clutch before you ever wear that washer enough to cause problems.



EVERY single discussion around the potentetial failure of this washer was done without any data to back it up. The discussions were all theoretical about what COULD happen. The ones that were'nt were pure speculation.



IIRC, the late 04's included the updated washer, but, the only way to know for sure is check. When I rebuilt my 05 trans it had the new part. Dodge did not bail on EB's literally until the 06 models were released. The only reason they did so was because they could not retro the 06 controller logic to the earlier ECU's and gurantee the TC and EB would play nice together.



The current controllers work fine on the 04. 5 units becuase they don't have the TTVA motor to deal with so add the Pressure Loc system like I posted and that solves the problem. However, to make sure you don't put excessive pressure on the stock trans you WILL need some upgrades.

 

[HBarlow]

A Cummins engineer posting valid info about a Dodge transmission? I think not. If said person did it was a personal opinion about the potential NOT an absolute. Cummins engineers won't be cornered about the engine let alone a 3rd part drive train piece.

Excessive wear of the thrust washer COULD eventually cause transmission failure, after approxiately 100,000 to 1,000,000 miles. Choose a number.

EVERY single discussion around the potentetial failure of this washer was done without any data to back it up. The discussions were all theoretical about what COULD happen. The ones that were'nt were pure speculation.

IIRC, the late 04's included the updated washer, but, the only way to know for sure is check. When I rebuilt my 05 trans it had the new part. Dodge did not bail on EB's literally until the 06 models were released. The only reason they did so was because they could not retro the 06 controller logic to the earlier ECU's and gurantee the TC and EB would play nice together.

Really? Are you sure?

Carlton Bale did. And as I said, he clearly had a different opinion than yours. As I said previously, I recommend Carlton Bale's opinion for those considering added an e-brake to a pre-'06 Ram.

You might want to read this old thread. Many of us followed this discussion beginning at the TDR Rally held at the Cummins Mid-Range Engine Plant in Columbus, IN during July of 2002. During the rally which introduced the Gen III trucks and the new HPCR engines Cummins engineers told us they were engaged in final testing prior to approval of the Jacobs Exhaust Brake for 48RE equipped Rams.

Over the next almost three year period Carlton Bale provided occasional updates in the TDR forums for all those who were interested in an exhaust brake for their Gen III 48RE Rams.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com.../76813-48re-exhaust-brake-current-status.html

Many threads and hundreds of posts on the subject were posted from mid-2003 until sometime in '06.

 

[mfrost]

Great and useful information guys. Thanks for the time and information that you shared with meOo.

 

[jtwcummins]

I ran a Banks ebrake on my 97 12v w/47re for almost 8 years w/o any problem. Ebrake came w/controller and a vac assy that pulled the valve wide open on the trans giving full fluid flow while engaged. TC lock worked well in 2-3-OD and brake worked to about 22 mph. Also, had input from coolant temp for the engine and activated when engine was below 140* at idle. Only turned off a couple of times while installed and never had temp issue w/trans or any other problems. Well designed setup

 

[cerberusiam]

Really? Are you sure?

Yeah, I am really sure. The facts haven't changed in 6 years.



Carlton reported Dodges opinion, not his, and many time reiterated DODGE IS THE WARRANTY STATION FOR THE TRANSMISSION AND HAS ALL THE CONTROL.



MY04. 5-MY05 are good to go when the SOFTWARE is updated. Guess what? Dodge bailed on the update.



After numerous years of dealers installing EB's, other suppliers installing EB's with no problems, literally millions of miles with EB's on a range of years and little or no hard data on failures, Dodge bailed on everything prior to the current year truck because 1 test truck saw unusual wear on 1 component in extremely unusual circustances that a normal truck would quite likely never see.



Yeah, lots of hard data there to make a decision on. :-laf Most of us just installed the EB's and went merrily on our way. I know of no one with an EB that would say it was a BAD idea, thrust washer and software included.

 

[HBarlow]

cerberusiam,

You should be a lawyer instead of just a self-appointed internet expert and bs artist. You can ignore facts and spout double talk with the best (worst?) of them. Do you sell the products you are recommending to TDR members?

There were over 30 pages of posts in that thread I linked above with dozens of posts by Carlton Bale, a respected engineer, carefully reporting testing results obtained by Dodge over a two or three year period. He was very careful to continually state that he was not an employee of Chrysler or Dodge and could not speak for those corporations. He was, however, directly involved in development and tesing and was the engineer designated by Cummins, Inc. to be responsible for coordinating testing among the various corporations involved in testing Jacobs exhaust brakes on Dodge 48RE equipped trucks before Dodge could certify the trucks and transmissions would meet their stingent testing standards and be covered under warranty.

Anyone who knows the history of Dodge and Cummins knows that back in the late '80s an agreement was made between the two companies that Cummins would be responsible for testing to ensure Cummins engines are compatible with the Dodge platform.

Carlton reported as the thread ran for three or four years that he was trying repeatedly to get Dodge transmission group engineers to tell him at what point or VIN late during the MY04. 5 model year the upgraded thrust washers and other related hardware were installed. He finally stated that the changeover was made at an unknown point in mid to late MY04. 5 (not all '04s ad you claim). He never was able to obtain or report that apparently because Dodge engineers didn't know at what point in the production run the new parts were available and installed.

It is true that members have been installing lock up switches and using exhaust brakes for years and as far as I know none have reported problems but any honest and informed person knows full well that anecdotal reports by isolated owners don't prove 100% reliablilty over the long run. We don't know how many later had their tranmissions rebuilt.

Each TDR member considering retrofit of an exhaust brake into a pre-05 Dodge Ram w/48RE can make his own decision. I offered factual information obtained from a respected Cummins engineer who was directly involved in the development and testing during the years before Dodge authorzed installation and use with an automatic transmission.

Your attempt to dismiss information provided by an authoritive source involved in the project tells me a lot about you and your motivation.