Which do I buy?

[WhichCummins]

With a new job comes more money and with more money, comes a vehicle more reliable than my 1961 Chevy K20. I decided on a 3rd gen Dodge Crewcab Cummins, but I need help deciding which I should buy.

The best option is probably the 2008 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT quad cab long bed. It has 158,000 mile, is a one owner truck and they want $20,995

Another option that I bet is an awful idea is a 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT. It has 318,000 miles and has had 5 owners, but they only want $9,995 for it.

Another option is an 05 2500 SLT. This one has 189,000 miles, they want $18,995 for it. The bonus of this one is that it's a manual, and there's about 36 service records showing up on the Carfax, and it looks like there were regular oil changes. The injectors on this we're done at 47,000 miles, which is odd, but things happen.

All the trucks look to be in pretty good condition except the $10,000 one, but I expected nothing less. Cosmetics aren't all that important for me, I just want whichever one you guys think would last the longest.

 

[WhichCummins]

I just found another option...I found a 2010 quad cab SLT 2500 Cummins with 223,000 miles for 19,999

 

[Motorhead]

If you are going to buy a 6.7 then you want I believe a 2013 or later with the DEF system instead of the early re-gen that the 2007.5 and later 6.7's had. I am particular to the 5.9's because you have none of that garbage that the 6.7's have. Being 65yrs now and been around cars for 50 years, I feel strongly that the BEST buy even if it is more money is the lowest mileage with service records and preferably a ONE owner. My neighbor just bought a pristine 2006 quad cab, 4x4, automatic with 66,000 original miles on it. It was a one owner vehicle too. He paid over $30,000 for it but the truck was garaged and well kept. Can't buy miles back.
Now if you live in a state that does NOT require smog checks every 2 years then you get a 6.7 and take all the emission stuff off and buy the box that fools the trucks system so no check light or limp mode. That's my $0.02 worth.

 

[WhichCummins]

If you are going to buy a 6.7 then you want I believe a 2013 or later with the DEF system instead of the early re-gen that the 2007.5 and later 6.7's had. I am particular to the 5.9's because you have none of that garbage that the 6.7's have. Being 65yrs now and been around cars for 50 years, I feel strongly that the BEST buy even if it is more money is the lowest mileage with service records and preferably a ONE owner. My neighbor just bought a pristine 2006 quad cab, 4x4, automatic with 66,000 original miles on it. It was a one owner vehicle too. He paid over $30,000 for it but the truck was garaged and well kept. Can't buy miles back. That's my $0.02 worth.

That's exactly what my thoughts were when it came to the emissions equipment. I figured a 5.9 would probably be more reliable.

I really don't want to spend more than $21,000 on the truck, so a DEF model is very far out of my comfortable price range.

I guess the question now is do I want the reliability of the manual and trust that the three owners took care of it, or do I stick with the more expensive, lower mileage one owner truck?

I need to go check them out obviously, but which would y'all place more faith in? I can send links to the trucks if y'all want 'em.

 

[Motorhead]

My 2007, 5.9 is a 6 speed and it has been a great truck. It was built December 22, 2006 so I got the 6.7 ratio 6 speed because they had run out of the G56 that was geared for the 5.9. I bought it new and have 95,000 miles on it. Check the 2005 to see if it has the G56 or the NV5600 transmission. Both have pros and cons but the NV5600 has a cast iron case where my G56 is all aluminum case. The BIG advantage with the stick, in my opinion, is two more gears than the automatic and I feel the stick is better for towing. If you live in an area where you have a lot of stop and go traffic then you won't want the stick. I have done a lot of practical mods to my truck.

 

[WhichCummins]

My 2007, 5.9 is a 6 speed and it has been a great truck. It was built December 22, 2006 so I got the 6.7 ratio 6 speed because they had run out of the G56 that was geared for the 5.9. I bought it new and have 95,000 miles on it. Check the 2005 to see if it has the G56 or the NV5600 transmission. Both have pros and cons but the NV5600 has a cast iron case where my G56 is all aluminum case. The BIG advantage with the stick, in my opinion, is two more gears than the automatic and I feel the stick is better for towing. If you live in an area where you have a lot of stop and go traffic then you won't want the stick. I have done a lot of practical mods to my truck.

I live in St. Louis so definitely stop and go, but I absolutely love manual trucks and I think I'm willing to suffer through the stop and go...plus, even with my ADHD, manuals keep me more attentive.

I'm also not very rough on my truck. The reason I'm buying a diesel is I'm not sure if I'll ever use it, but since I work construction, I may end up towing something sometime, or I may have to tow my 56 year old truck somewhere, who knows?! Plus the well known reliability of the 5.9 Cummins, and the 20MPG...plus I just like diesels.

I just have to figure out how quiet I can make the damn thing! I've had my loud diesel trucks, I kind of think I'll want a quiet one for a change! I know 24Vs are pretty loud, but I reckon I can reduce it some

 

[NIsaacs]

I just found another option...I found a 2010 quad cab SLT 2500 Cummins with 223,000 miles for 19,999

I would buy this one. I like the 4th gens. and you get the factory exhaust brake and 6spd auto, same as the '08. My next choice would be the '08, however I like the look of the 4th over the 3rd gens.

Nick

 

[jgillott]

Biased opinion from another 5.9L owner. I have nearly an identical truck to Motorhead's with the exception that mine was build in October of '06 and has the older lower ratio G56. We also have a 2004.5 48re automatic. Both have been great trucks. If it were my money, I'd take a serious look at the 2005 manual trans truck.

 

[WhichCummins]

I would buy this one. I like the 4th gens. and you get the factory exhaust brake and 6spd auto, same as the '08. My next choice would be the '08, however I like the look of the 4th over the 3rd gens.

Nick

I 100% prefer the 4th gen body style...in fact, they're what made me want a Dodge. But the emissions equipment scares me. I don't like the idea of deleting it and then having state or federal regulations get tighter and being on the hook for what happens. I also don't like the idea of the truck being beat up...

Biased opinion from another 5.9L owner. I have nearly an identical truck to Motorhead's with the exception that mine was build in October of '06 and has the older lower ratio G56. We also have a 2004.5 48re automatic. Both have been great trucks. If it were my money, I'd take a serious look at the 2005 manual trans truck.

I was leaning towards that manual!

I've just heard awful things about the Dodge automatic transmission they put behind the Cummins. Like I said, I'm not rough on my trucks...I'd probably leave it in tow haul mode all the time for the harder shifts.

 

[brods]

I sure hope you are hanging on to the 61 K20. So much, where to begin? 20 mpg, no. More like 17 highway, 15 city as the typical average. Since your still driving a 1961 I'll assume your not in the rust belt. It will matter where the trucks came from. Rust belt trucks eventually need replacement oil pans. As you can imagine the rest of the underside doesn't fair much better. Even the rear pumpkin starts to rot to pieces. Some common issues are broken wires in the back doors and broken diverter doors in the HVAC system. Unless there is extra fuel filtration, injector life is relatively short (compared to the engine's life). Some have the annoying steering column clicking. Do some searching on the forum, somewhere there is a thread about 3rd gen issues as well as a thread about injector life. It will give you and idea what to check for before you buy and what to expect after the purchase.

Stick vs auto. Back in 05 I was ready to buy the stick until I drove the trucks. In 05 the auto had a taller overdrive for lower rpm at highway speeds, so I went with the auto and don't regret it. Mine auto is still going strong at 140K. A boiler repair company has a 05 almost the same as mine and they put over 300K on their auto before it needed to be replaced and nothing gets treated worse than a company truck.

What would worry me most about buying a use diesel is the care, or lack there of, of the previous owners. Did they ever get bad fuel? Did they run biodiesel? For me a big show stopper would be if they tried making their own fuel. Did they beat the snot out of it with a programmer turned to the max and then dump the truck when problems started? Unless you know the use history and why the truck was passed around so much, you should probably steer clear of the 5 owner truck.

To do over again I'd buy an 03-04 (no in cylinder egr or cat) or, given how gasoline motors are lasting so long now a days, just skip the diesel all together.

 

[jgillott]

I 100% prefer the 4th gen body style...in fact, they're what made me want a Dodge. But the emissions equipment scares me. I don't like the idea of deleting it and then having state or federal regulations get tighter and being on the hook for what happens. I also don't like the idea of the truck being beat up...




I was leaning towards that manual!

I've just heard awful things about the Dodge automatic transmission they put behind the Cummins. Like I said, I'm not rough on my trucks...I'd probably leave it in tow haul mode all the time for the harder shifts.

I still think the manual is your best bet. But, don't be too scared of the automatics. Our 04.5 has 340+K on it and it pushes a plow and slings salt for a living. Original 48re with nothing more than regular maintenance. Many of the negatives that you hear on the Dodge automatics is exaggerated garbage spread by people who don't actually own one or from owners who don't maintain them properly or try and push too much power through them without proper modifications.

 

[WhichCummins]

I sure hope you are hanging on to the 61 K20. So much, where to begin? 20 mpg, no. More like 17 highway, 15 city as the typical average. Since your still driving a 1961 I'll assume your not in the rust belt. It will matter where the trucks came from. Rust belt trucks eventually need replacement oil pans. As you can imagine the rest of the underside doesn't fair much better. Even the rear pumpkin starts to rot to pieces. Some common issues are broken wires in the back doors and broken diverter doors in the HVAC system. Unless there is extra fuel filtration, injector life is relatively short (compared to the engine's life). Some have the annoying steering column clicking. Do some searching on the forum, somewhere there is a thread about 3rd gen issues as well as a thread about injector life. It will give you and idea what to check for before you buy and what to expect after the purchase.

Stick vs auto. Back in 05 I was ready to buy the stick until I drove the trucks. In 05 the auto had a taller overdrive for lower rpm at highway speeds, so I went with the auto and don't regret it. Mine auto is still going strong at 140K. A boiler repair company has a 05 almost the same as mine and they put over 300K on their auto before it needed to be replaced and nothing gets treated worse than a company truck.

What would worry me most about buying a use diesel is the care, or lack there of, of the previous owners. Did they ever get bad fuel? Did they run biodiesel? For me a big show stopper would be if they tried making their own fuel. Did they beat the snot out of it with a programmer turned to the max and then dump the truck when problems started? Unless you know the use history and why the truck was passed around so much, you should probably steer clear of the 5 owner truck.

To do over again I'd buy an 03-04 (no in cylinder egr or cat) or, given how gasoline motors are lasting so long now a days, just skip the diesel all together.

My dad is telling me to get rid of the 61, but there is no way I will let that happen. I got it in Montana when I lived there, and drove it home to Missouri. Part of the reason I'm buying another truck is I refuse to drive my 61 here in the rust belt winter's.

I'm probably gonna stick with one owner truck. Its hard to find exactly what I want...I really just want a 2500/3500 with a Cummins, cab lights, a crew cab and it really should be a long bed...that and history is really all I care about.

 

[NIsaacs]

A couple other things to consider is: Quad cab v/s crew cab and rear axle ratio. With a 6spd auto 4.10's are good but not for a 6spd manual.

Nick

 

[WhichCummins]

Found an 04 long bed 3500 with cab lights that isn't black...

How does this Carfax look to you? $17,999

https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?vin=1D7KS28C06J171823&partner=CDM_O

EDIT: That link doesn't work. You can find the Carfax on this site I believe. It's free.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/706804799/overview/?aff=share_email

EDIT 2: From what I can see, it looks like the first owner used it for alot of miles, probably highway hauling? He went 30,000 miles in half a year.

The second owner didn't drive it much at all.

EDIT 3: Could have sworn that was a long bed but now that I look at it, I'm thinking it's a short bed.

 

[cerberusiam]

If you want reliability, ease of maintenance then a 12V is the best choice, 91 to 97. Lacks the creature comforts, updates NVH, and of course interior room of course.

The 5.9's are all 1 years or more, no matter the mileage age i starting to affect the electronics on them. You can spend a LOT chasing problems and parts for them are getting more and more expensive, platform wise anyway. The 600 series 5.9's with some additional work as as powerful and reliable and engine Cummins every made, IF the electronics work. Otherwise, it is a driveway ornament until it is fixed.

The 2007.-2009.5 trucks have a decent engine but again age is showing and the platform is the downside. The emissions are its downfall and you can spend a good chunk of money fixing it right, or, even maintaining the systems. The 6.7 B group is much better and that platform is now just 7 years old. Not as complex as the newer ones, you still stand a chance of maintaining it yourself with some additional tools, the electronics and emissions systems are much better than the 6.7 A group, and there is a lot more support for parts yet.

The 6.7 C group in the 2013 and newer is the best combo so far but comes with a downside, a million mile umbilical to dealer tools. They certain component that require specialized dealer tools to install and initialize or the truck will not run. It come sin on a hook and until you fork out the $$ there it sits.

Frankly, a 2010-2012 would be the best choice right now if you can swing the roughly $20-35k for configuration and miles.A low miles one owner Laramie edition is a nice truck but they bring a premium.

If you are buying this for a commuter vehicle for in-city driving, rethink. These trucks make lousy DD and commuter vehicles and you will fight the problems forever, so much so you will cuss at Dodge and Cummins for the problems when the $$ total up. These are a WORKING vehicle that need 10k behind them for hours on end on a frequent basis or the engine and after treatment missions will suffer degradation.

As for the transmission, look at the gears and the functionality. The manual is ONE transmission and a step back in so many ways. It is barely capable of the engine ratings to begin with and suffers badly when the built in management and NVH systems are defeated. The stock clutch is just a problem waiting to happen, upgrades introduce new challenges, etc. Rather than focusing attention a manual in traffic takes away attention you can focus elsewhere, chiefly the rest of the maniacs on the road that think cutting off a 800 lb truck with a Prius is a GOOD idea. Any length of a commute with a manual trans in these trucks quickly becomes a painful experience that you grow to will regret. A manual is a good choice for weekend warrior or a working road truck where you hit open road for a considerable length of time, not so much for dual use. If you really want to feel good about shifting manually, only real reason left to choose a manual trans, get an auto stick so have something to play with to change the gears. In stop-go traffic you would be lucky to need 2 or maybe 3 gears and the process of changing gears is much slower than an auto leaving a bit more time for enjoying and self preservation.

The auto transmissions are much better suited to a diesel engine. Boost doesn't drop on shifts, you don't have to spool the engine down to shift, almost always in the right gear or easy to get to it with an auto stick. Efficacy of the newer autos is much better and as long as you don't abuse them they tend to last quite well. There is a reason manual transmissions are no longer offered or limited selections in MD trucks, quite a few much more effective solutions available.

 

[WhichCummins]

I certainly do quite a bit of highway driving but no more than 5-10 miles with the occasional 50-70 mile trip...right now, I have a 10 minute drive to work with a small portion if 50-55.

I should probably buy a 6.4 or a 5.7. Are they good motors? Do any of them come with manuals? What kind of gas mileage could I expect?

Thank you for convincing me to not spend the premium on a diesel...it's just not worth the trouble when I have injectors go bad and stuff like that.

 

[cerberusiam]

The injectors on a 6.7 are much better, that isn't the biggest problem. The short drive times will raise havoc in the VGT turbo and the catalyst system though, likely have constant issues with regens and turbo sooting in addition to fuel contamination in the oil and cylinder fouling with carbon. !0 minutes and 10-15 mile sis just not enough to adequate warm the engine and clear the emissions systems.

Not sure about a manual trans in the 5.7's, everything I have seen is auto. You may have to search far and wide to find one.

For a commuter the 5.7 is a good choice. Decent economy, enough power to get out of its own way, cheaper to operate, etc. The models with VVT will help save fuel at low loads. The 5.7 with MDS has always been a bit of an issue when they got miles on them as the lifters tended to collapse and not work right, older ones anyway. I think the newer ones did away with most of the issues in that area. A crew cab short box makes a great commuter and family vehicle in a city where space can be a premium. Has enough power to tow smaller loads in the 6-8k range with relative ease.

The 6.4 is more power and more fuel in a heavier truck, like a 2500. If you don't need that heavy truck and power then the 1500 series is a better choice for dual use and commuting.

 

[WhichCummins]

The injectors on a 6.7 are much better, that isn't the biggest problem. The short drive times will raise havoc in the VGT turbo and the catalyst system though, likely have constant issues with regens and turbo sooting in addition to fuel contamination in the oil and cylinder fouling with carbon. !0 minutes and 10-15 mile sis just not enough to adequate warm the engine and clear the emissions systems.

Not sure about a manual trans in the 5.7's, everything I have seen is auto. You may have to search far and wide to find one.

For a commuter the 5.7 is a good choice. Decent economy, enough power to get out of its own way, cheaper to operate, etc. The models with VVT will help save fuel at low loads. The 5.7 with MDS has always been a bit of an issue when they got miles on them as the lifters tended to collapse and not work right, older ones anyway. I think the newer ones did away with most of the issues in that area. A crew cab short box makes a great commuter and family vehicle in a city where space can be a premium. Has enough power to tow smaller loads in the 6-8k range with relative ease.

The 6.4 is more power and more fuel in a heavier truck, like a 2500. If you don't need that heavy truck and power then the 1500 series is a better choice for dual use and commuting.

I'd prefer a 6.4 so I could mess with the exhaust system without having to worry about it sounding like a 4 cylinder.

Honestly, I'm used to driving a crew cab dually in a university parking lot and a 61 K20 with a crap turning radius in a city, so I'm not worried about the size.

Basically, my only criteria are:
Not black (safety and insurance purposes)
Gasser
4X4
Long bed crew cab (I like my trucks big)
Cab lights (it doesn't look like a 3/4 ton or 1 ton without them.

 

[jgillott]

My friend has had several 3/4 ton 5.7L Hemi trucks and now has a 6.4L Powerwagon. No complaints on reliability, but he only keeps them for a few years before replacing them. He has a fairly large toy hauler that he pulls all over the place with that 6.4L now. It pulls it well from what he claims, uses a ton of fuel, but it does OK.

 

[WhichCummins]

My friend has had several 3/4 ton 5.7L Hemi trucks and now has a 6.4L Powerwagon. No complaints on reliability, but he only keeps them for a few years before replacing them. He has a fairly large toy hauler that he pulls all over the place with that 6.4L now. It pulls it well from what he claims, uses a ton of fuel, but it does OK.

My 61 has a 454 mated to a 700R4. In other words, the best mileage I've gotten was a full tank going 55 on flat ground and that was 9.92 MPG.