Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Which head gasket?

[CPavlic]

OK guys, I need your help. Ive had my truck together for only two weeks after blowing the head gasket. I upgraded to arp studs but tried to get away with using a stock head gasket again. I havent even adjusted my turbo yet as it still is wastegated at 40 lbs and i blew the gasket again. I would like to get it put back together as quick as possible and not spend much after just spending four grand two weeks ago so I doubt Im going to o-ring the head, I would just like to upgrade the gasket. So which do you guys recommend? I dont plan on going for much more power than what I got now and dont plan on running more than 55 lbs of boost, at least not anytime soon.

 

[DBraunig]

OK guys, I need your help. Ive had my truck together for only two weeks after blowing the head gasket. I upgraded to arp studs but tried to get away with using a stock head gasket again. I havent even adjusted my turbo yet as it still is wastegated at 40 lbs and i blew the gasket again. I would like to get it put back together as quick as possible and not spend much after just spending four grand two weeks ago so I doubt Im going to o-ring the head, I would just like to upgrade the gasket. So which do you guys recommend? I dont plan on going for much more power than what I got now and dont plan on running more than 55 lbs of boost, at least not anytime soon.

Unless you want to do it a third time you should bite the bullet now and have the head checked/surfaced and o-ringed. It really doesn't cost that much at the machine shop to have a head surfaced and ringed, you already have the studs and your going to have to buy another gasket anyway. Find a shop that knows diesel and make sure they put the correct finish on the head. Clean and prep the deck on the block and when you think it's clean, clean it again. I'd run a modified 12v gasket with your choice of thickness and an . 041 wire with about . 010-. 012 protusion.



Dave

 

[CPavlic]

I know thats the best thing to do, Im just not sure of a reliable shop that knows diesels around where I live. Thats the only problem Im facing, Im just worried that to have it done right Im going to have to send the head out and get it done which Im afraid is going to take a while. But your right D Braunig, I do wish I could do it right and just not have to worry about it again.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Was the head planed the last time and the block checked for being flat? Something is wrong if you are blowing the head gasket at 40 psi. With the original head gasket and periodic re-torqueing it has been possible to hit 80 psi frequently without blowing.

With a flat head and block and studs you should easily be able to handle 55 psi with no sweat (assuming drive pressure is not too high). If you plan on going to an o-ring sometime it will not be cheaper later.

I did hear rumors at one time about a multi-layer steel h/g like the common rails have. Does anyone know if it came to fruition?

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[BILLVO]

Those head gaskets are out and extremely expensive and holding no better than stock ones from what I have read and heard.

 

[kenny61]

I agree with 40 psi not being that much. I would have the head and block checked for flat. A block is a block and a head is a head so any good machine shop would be able to check it. The diesel knowledge dont really come in unless your messing with the pump and fuel stuff

 

[Diesel Dummie]

I blew mine and went with a 12V marine . 20over gasket, no studs, no retorque and no issues. , seen 50+ with a set of twins i had on it, which are now mia and a 62/14 is in place and it regularly sees 45psi.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

If you are blowing the head gasket at 40 psi, most likely the surfaces are warped, were resurfaced too rough, or were not cleaned adequately. Use a 2 foot long straight edge, a machinist's tool, not a ruler, and a 0. 0015” feeler gauge to check for flatness after thoroughly cleaning the surfaces, using lacquer thinner and a scraper that holds a single edge razor blade. Be sure to mop out all the head bolt holes of coolant and oil with a hundred (no joking—there are 28 head bolt holes) Q-tips. If one is full of stuff and you screw a head bolt into it, the stuff goes all over the deck. The surfacing should be 60 microinches or better. If you can catch a fingernail at all when running it across the surface, the surface is too rough. It would help to upgrade the intercooler or check boost air temperature but thousands of TDR members have run that kind of boost with stock head gaskets and no problems. The 12 valve head gasket is the same quality, just available in three thicknesses. It is not a direct replacement because the end near the exhaust does not adequately cover the water passages of the head that are near that edge of the head. You would have to tap them and put in pipe plugs to be sure there would be no leaks near the crimped on aluminum tabs along the edge of the 12-valve head gasket. Just stay with the 24 valve gasket, it is a good one at your boost level.

 

[CumminsPower98]

My question is how often did you retorque your studs? I learned the hard way on mine after installing studs with a new gasket. The gasket compresses slightly when new so will loosen up some. Also the studs don't give as much as the stock bolts so need to be retorqued often at first. The studs also have some breaking in to do. After installing my second gasket and making sure I retoruqed at least 3 times with lots of heat/cool cycles between each one I have been fine. No I'm not running big boost. My original gasket gave out at 247k under about 38 psi while towing. My first replacement with studs gave up at less than 30 psi. I now have about 140 on the second replacement gasket. It has seen 35 a little bit but I keep it at 30 or less most of the time. I really don't need more then that with the stock 35.

 

[Jason Griebel]

I had a muti-layer steel Cometic gasket and after retorque blow it on first boost run of about 50 psi. Then o-ringed head stock gasket retorqued numerous times and 60+ psi no problems. If you want to do it right take the time and o-ring head and be done with it.

 

[CPavlic]

Thanks for all the replys guys, keep em coming. One thing that I did want to mention earlier is that both time it blew in the same spot, front driver side of the gasket. I think I remember that being a common area but Im not sure. Also, when I torqued the studs I did it once before starting, let it get to operating temp and then cooled down and retorqued, and then drove if for about five days not getting over 35 lbs and that was it. I know there are different methods but was this the wrong one?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I agree with kennyy61. My machine shop is CLUELESS about high performance diesels, but after I showed them the Haisley Fire Ring and Headgasket kit, they said "Oh, yeah, I see. This will be easy"



They cut the block perfectly after measuring an actual fire ring.

 

[CumminsPower98]

The first time I did mine I warmed it up let cool and retorqued also. At the time ARP said 96 ft lb. with the molly lube. I went to 110 on the final and then drove like normal out towing. That didn't work for me. The next time around I did at least 3 retorques with heat/cool cycles between each while keeping my boost down. I went to 125 using the molly lube this time also and so far its working for me but again I don't run very high boost pressure.

 

[CPavlic]

So does anyone know if I should be worried with it blowing in the same spot? The very front on the driver side?

 

[DBraunig]

Not if you follow Donnelly's advice in post #8



Dave

 

[CPavlic]

DBraunig, I meant do I have something to worry about as in the block or head having low spots since it blew twice in the same spot, sorry for not being clear. Also, ThrottleJockey, I saw the fire ring kit you were talking about. What is the difference between fire rings and o-rings? Is one stronger than the other? Does it depend on the application which is better? Sorry for all the questions, just dont want to have to do this a third time

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Don't worry, slow down and relax. Your'e not getting it and no one on here wants to be rude to you because this is a great bunch of guys, trust me.



So I'll do it.



Your cylinder head or engine block or both is warped. You already know where the spot is, you just don't know which component, right?



So do what I did. I pretended they were both warped and I did what Joe Donnelly said to do in post number 8. Except I used a Haisley Fire Ring set up. Fire Rings are a little stronger but I chose them because they are easy. All of these TDR guys told me to superglue 'em on told hold them in the grooves, then bolt the head down. Easy, right?



I only wanted to do it once, so I took care of my bottom end and rebuild the right way. Turbos and injectors are easy. But I got what I wanted on the rebuild. Arias Low CR forged tractor pulling pistons. PDR cam and ARP studs with the Haisley HG. It was easy, too, the machine shop did all the cutting and I did all the wrenching. That was back in 2003, it still runs like champ.

 

[CPavlic]

So I took the head to the machine shop and had it checked for flatness and they said that it was all in specs and found no bad spots. I also took a straight edge and a feeler gauge and checked my block just like Donnelly told me to and found no low spots on it either. So Ive decided that I probably didnt clean it as well as I should have and probably should have retorqued more often. I asked the machine shop about putting 0-rings in the head and they said that they couldnt do that and I havent been able to find anyone in town that can so it lookes like I would have to send it out to be done. I wanted to ask and see if anyone had ever tried putting a cooper sealant on the head gasket before. I dont remember reading anywhere on here if anyone has done that but Id thought I ask.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Sure they have. But it didn't work. EVERYTHING has been tried. If there was a shortcut to a way to hold 45 to 65 psi, someone would have found it. It all circles back around to O rings or Fire rings. I sucks, I know, but it's all we have. Performance diesels make a lot of boost for a street driven ride. Don't mess with that flat head and block. I rented a U haul pick up for 19. 95 a day and drove my block to Scheid's 105 miles away.



I felt it was important.