Which should I get for conversion, 1st or 2nd gen?

[DPinkston]

Hey all, new member here. I have been browsing the site for a few days and have just now got my account activated. I am going to do a conversion on a 93 F350 and I can't decide whether I should use a 1st gen or go with a 2nd gen. I don't want a 24 valve. I found a 91 1st gen with under 100K and all acc for $1600. The best deal I can find on a comparably equipped 2nd gen is around $3200. I hear talk of various discontinued parts for the first gen that scares me, but that price makes me brave! The low 160hp rating of the 91 is of some concern. How well would this engine perform compared to a Ford EFI 460?

Any other tips?

Thanks

Danny

 

[y-knot]

If it were me, I would be looking for a 2nd generation Ram truck with a 12V diesel engine (94-98). You get more standard performance then with a 1st gen engine, and their and many to choose from.

 

[ndurbin]

2nd gen. 12 valve.

 

[SEmerson]

2nd gen 12v for sure

 

[JLEONARD]

Well, don't overlook the simplicity of a first gen, and don't let the 160 hp factory rating deter you... . these engines can easily get to the 250 hp range without an awfull lot of work, and can go higher if you want. Look in the first gen threads for how to accomplish that.

Jay

 

[DPinkston]

I thought the 2nd gen would get the nod. It's still tuff to turn down that deal on the 1st gen. Your probably right though. The initial cost is higher but I'll be dollars ahead in the long run.

Thanks,

Danny

 

[michigandon]

That '91 for $1600 sounds like an EXCELLENT deal. If it was a '91. 5 (intercooled) I would definitely snap it up! I paid $3000 for a '93 engine and trans from a local wrecking yard, and thus far I am very pleased with how it's running (and I haven't even driven it very far yet!). Don't get me wrong, I WANTED to use a 2nd gen P-pump 12 valve in my signature project too! Unfortunatley, every one that I found when I was shopping either:



a)Had 2-3 times as many miles on it as this one did



b) Was priced $1000-$1500 more



c) Was located 2-3 states away from where I live



d) All of the above.



Good luck with whatever you do decide. I will be a vast Improvement to that blue oval of yours.



Don

 

[BV]

93 Ford / Cummins conversion

Weigh and measure all the pros and cons with each and base your decission on what you come up with.



The discontinued parts on the 1st gens are not the Cummins pieces so don't let that scare you. I second the intercooled part that michigandon mentions.



I picked up my 2nd gen engine (96/215hp) from a TDR member and paid around $3,500 but that includes new flywheel, new fan blade, new fan hub bearing, a bunch of new bolts and the engine only had 88k.



For another $200. 00 I'm sitting around the 280hp mark.



Good luck on your conversion - Marty

 

[DPinkston]

That '91 for $1600 sounds like an EXCELLENT deal. If it was a '91. 5 (intercooled) I would definitely snap it up!

Don

It is an intercooled model so it must be a 91. 5. I love the thought of saving all that money, but if I am disappointed in the power output I'll be dumping money into it to pump it up. Decisions, decisions...

Danny

 

[NIsaacs]

Like JLEONARD AND michigandan said, the price is right. With a little money spent on some mods, the "91" is no slouch and will show taillights to the 460, loaded or empty, on half the fuel Do you want an auto or standard? What does the "91" have? Look at the total picture on what you buy, if it has every thing you want, I would go for it. If not, you may want to look some more. If brute power is your main focus, go with the p-pump. If not, get the "91". The 91. 5 has quite a few upgrades over the pre intercooled motors. The 1st gen's also have a 13" clutch, a plus over the 12. 3 on the 2nd gen's. Good luck in your choice, the Cummins makes an awesome truck out of the Ford's!





"IF IT AIN'T CUMMINS POWERED, IT AIN'T A TRUCK"





"NICK"

 

[btanner]

look around for deals especially in the classified sections on here and other web sites. I picked up a 94 12v with 75k with a 47rh for 2200 shipped to me. So you just have to look around. I wouldn't get the 1 gen mainly because of the easy of upgradability for the 2nd gen. For about 1000 in parts (that's new cost you can get it for less with used stuff) you can easily have 350-400hp in a 2nd gen. With just a plate you can get 250 which is less than 200 bucks. Best of luck on the conversion might want to look at cumminsford.com for ideas on how to do things.



-ben

 

[Sojourner]

look around for deals especially in the classified sections on here and other web sites. I picked up a 94 12v with 75k with a 47rh for 2200 shipped to me. So you just have to look around.

I agree. If you just patiently and diligently look around, you will find a smokin' deal somewhere, such a complete, yet beat up, truck for $1,000 to $2,500 (I've seen them and heard of them here and there). I found a '96 engine with an actual 36K miles from new out of a wreck in the paper (advertised for $1,200, but I haggled the price down to $900 because of the cracked front gear housing, smashed fan/clutch assembly, missing the turbo, starter, alternator, a/c comp, intake horn, damaged heater grid). It came with an excellent fuel pump. A lil' freshening up and I will have an engine that is just getting broken it. Oo. Oo.



A good place to watch for deals is www.thriftynickelads.com and believe it or not, ebay. I noticed a beat-up '95 Dodge CTD on ebay where the price was $2,500 as I recall. I also saw a '98 12v auto 2WD here locally in a thoroughly beat-up body with 68k miles and the asking price was $4k from a very motivated seller (may have sold for less). Just keep looking, the smokin' deals are out there.

 

[vssman]

1st gen price sounds really good. I've rode in JLeonard's 1st gen and it's definately no slouch. If you want more go they are easily BOMBed - and you'll spend less than the difference between the 1st and 2nd gen engine. Now... If you want to be the HP king at the dyno's after mods, then you'll need a 2nd gen 96 thu early 98 215 hp motor from a stick truck.

 

[DPinkston]

I wound up buying a 97 from a junkyard. I paid more than I wanted to but my truck is down and I don't have the luxury of waiting around for a great deal. Hopefully all will turn out well.

Danny

 

[towner]

My conversion been done for about six months https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92358&highlight=apache



I really wish I would of gone with a 12 valve 94-98 for several reasons now.



I've turned up the pump quite a bit and put bigger injectors in. I've tried a couple different turbo's and have a HX-35 with 14cm housing off a 12 valve.



During the initial conversion I figured out that I didn't want to use the Getrag and its not an easy conversion from a Getrag to NV trans. especially $$$$$What transmission will you run?



The next issues you need to think about are cooling and intercooling, the 91. 5-93 radiator and intercooler are smaller than 94-98 and you need to look at your core support and see which years will fit better. especially if your going to run a combination of ford/dodge components... don't even think of doing the swap non-intercooled



I'm now accumalating 12 valve parts to do the p7100 pump and cyl head. the truck runs great but its barely stronger than my friends 12v with minor mods and once I pull more than 12000 lbs its not too happy on big hills... .



I guess you need to think about what you want to use the truck for and how much power your going to want. there's alot of components to think about...



My 2c worth

Mike