Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) White Smoke and Missing

[mikel]

Hey gang, I'm hoping someone has seen something like this before and can offer some advice.



I just installed a reman p7100 on my truck. It is a 215 pump (887) and now I'm having trouble with lots of white smoke and the thing misses pretty bad.



Running the rpms up while the truck is out of gear it'll miss pretty good, but under a load it's even worse.



So far I have checked, re-checked and re-re-checked the timing. It is at 5. 5mm lift at TDC which is supposed to be correct for CPL 2023 and 2175 (the only 215HP CPL's listed on Piers site) and gives 15. 5 degrees of timing.



I have also checked fuel pressure and it is about 21 at idle and about 28-30 at 2000 rpm.



The strainer is new, the lift pump is new, the fuel filter is new, the rubber lines are new. The bald spots on my head from pulling my hair out are new...



This is really turning into an issue, the truck has been down since last Thursday and I've already missed two days of work because of it.



Anyhow, I'm just hoping someone has seen something like this and can offer me some kind of advice.



Thanks,

Mike

 

[BPonci]

You could have a stuck d/v valve. How did you go about locating tdc? Have you pop tested the injectors? Did you have any problems before changing the pump?

 

[mikel]

I'm starting to think it must be something in the pump.



The pump that I had on the truck was one I bought used and at first it ran pretty good, but less than a week after I got it installed it decided to no longer idle.



It ran good on top, just no idle. Consensus was governor problem so I had to buy a reman since I need the truck.



The injectors had less than 5000 miles on them, they were 370's from piers. I swapped them out with the stock ones and still the same BS.



I found TDC by dropping a valve and marking the harmonic balancer. Turns out that my TDC pin is exactly right.



Anyhow, thanks for the thuoghts, I'm going to have to get the pump shop on the phone now I guess...



Mike

 

[Piers]

Do you know the Bosch part number for the pump you brought?

It's located behind the throttle linkage bracket, on the side of the injection pump. it should say 0 402 736 913 or 0 402 736 887 if it's a 96-98 215hp pump

 

[K5IP]

When you figure it out, let us know what it was.

My 95 has always has similar problems, not as severe as yours, since it was new. I have never been able to get it to run as well as my friends truck. One Cummings shop said they thought it was caused by the individual high pressure lines not being balanced well enough. In my case they said the problem was not bad enough to warrant putting the pump on the test stand to verify it.

Most other possibilities, injectors, timing, low pressure side, have all been checked or changed without help.

Sure would be nice if it was right though.

Rog

 

[mikel]

Originally posted by Piers

Do you know the Bosch part number for the pump you brought?

It's located behind the throttle linkage bracket, on the side of the injection pump. it should say 0 402 736 913 or 0 402 736 887 if it's a 96-98 215hp pump

It is the 887 pump.



As an update, I took the truck out with the stock injectors in it and ran the mess out of it and it seems to be less smoky now than it was earlier.



I am getting an obvious miss during "normal" driving from right off idle to around 2200 rpm.



If I "baby" it or "hammer" it then it doesn't miss in that range.



At least for now I can drive it anyway.



Thanks again for looking!



Mike

 

[mikel]

Another bit of info, the smoke and missing is definitely temperature related. When the engine is cold it smokes and misses pretty bad, and as it warms up the engine seems to settle down.



I know this is a classic sign that the timing isn't set right, but I've checked it three times... Unless 5. 5mm lift is not correct for the 887 pump?



Anyway, that's the latest.



Mike

 

[Piers]

Mike you are right, those are the classic signs of retarded timing. I'm surprised the pin was right on the money. Bump the timing 2 degrees & see what happens, . i'd be willing to bet a beer or two that fixes your problem

 

[mikel]

Well, I really REALLY wanted the timing to be the fix, but I don't think it's going to do it. I'm at 5. 9mm lift which should be 17. 5 degrees extrapolating the Piers chart out.



Even if I had an 887 that somehow had to be set like a 160hp pump, I'd still be at 13. 5 which I can't imagine would miss and blow white smoke.



The shop where I got the pump is closed now, so I'll call them in the morning and see where we go next I guess.



Thanks again for all the help.



Mike

 

[Piers]

That didn't fix it? What kind of beer do you drink? Now you've got to let us know what the pump shop says..... maybe its a parts and pieces pump, 215 body, 160 cam, in which case 5. 9mm lift is only 13. 5 degrees

 

[mikel]

Originally posted by Piers

That didn't fix it? What kind of beer do you drink?

I'll see you in Kerrville this year, we can square up then.



I'll let everyone know what happens.



Mike

 

[hsmith]

Kerrville?

Originally posted by mikel

I'll see you in Kerrville this year, we can square up then.



I'll let everyone know what happens.



Mike

What's happening in Kerrville and when?

Only 80 miles south of me. Be nice to see Piers again.

 

[mjs]

AIR AIR AIR ARE YOU CERTAIN YOUR NOT SUCKING AIR . I HAD THIS PROBLEM WITH MY 94 AND IT WAS HARD TO FIND . THIS WAS SUCKING THROUGH THE PRE STRAINER AT THE FUEL HEATER RECEPTICAL . SOME ONE QUOTE ME IF I'M WRONG AIRATION WILL RETARD TIMING . MY TRUCK MISSED & SMOKED LIKE A BANSHEE . IT COULD VEARY WELL BE THE PUMP BUT KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU DISTERBED THE LINES AND THINGS IN THE PROCESS OF TRANSFERING THE PUMP . OH YEH AIR WILL MAKE IT STALL TO . I SEEN THIS TO WITH OUT THE MISS OR SMOKE . HOW WELL DOSE IT START ? IF ITS NOT INSTANTLY ITS PROBLY AIRLY. ALSO CHECK YOUR PICKUP SENDING UNIT AT THE TANK I HAD PROBLEMS HERE WITH MY 95 IT WAS HARD TO START AND IT DID NOT MISS OR SMOKE AND IT GOT TO THE POINT WERE IT WOULD STALL DIE AND LOSS POWER LIKE IT WAS OUT OF FUEL. PUSH SOME LOW PRESSURE AIR IN YOUR FUEL TANK AND LOOK FOR ANY WET SPOTS . HOPE THIS HELPS . MIKE

 

[mikel]

Thanks for the tip on the air. This morning is the first time that the truck has sat undisturbed for any length of time since I got the current injection pump on it and this morning when I started it, it did sputter a little like maybe there was some air in it somewhere.



Let me give a little more info into this so maybe someone will see something that I'm not.



My factory pump developed governor issues and had to be changed. I bought a used pump from another TDR member and put it on and it lasted less than a week before it decided not to idle. I haven't had time to get back with him about this yet.



Neither of these pumps EVER made any white smoke at all. 28 degrees outside last winter and not a trace of white. None.



Anyway, the truck was down and I needed it to run so I went and got a rebuilt pump from a shop here in Houston. At the same time I went ahead and replaced the two rubber lines that are so hard to get to when the pump is on the truck as well as the fuel filter and lift pump since the old lift pump was ticking pretty bad.



I like the idea of putting air in the tank to see if I can find a leak, that makes alot of sense. I think I'll try it.



What I can't figure out is why the white smoke and missing almost but not totally go away when the engine warms up.



Anyone have any thoughts?



Mike

 

[mikel]

Re: Kerrville?

Originally posted by hsmith

What's happening in Kerrville and when?

Only 80 miles south of me. Be nice to see Piers again.

There's an annual get together in Kerrville and it has been rumored that this year Piers might be there. . I'm keeping my fingers crossed.



Mike

 

[mjs]

MINE CLEANED UP SOME WHAT TO. ONLY WHEN IT REACHED FULL TEMP. THE WARMER IT GOT THE FURTHER YOU COULD REV IT BEFORE THE THE SMOKE & MISS . AGAIN SOME ONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG . THE REASON FOR THIS CLEANING UP WITH TEMP. IS BECAUSE THE FUEL IS BURNING MORE COMPLETE WITH THE HELP OF CYLINDER TEMP. MY 94 ACTED LIKE IT WAS 10 DEG. OUT AT 70 DEG . THIS ALL WAS DO TO AIR IN THE SYSTEM AND THIS WILL DELAY THE TIMING

 

[britannic]

Mike: hot tip: please turn off your CAP's lock key and type in lower case with normal capitalization. It's hard to read your posts and to the rest of us, all upper case means you're angry/shouting etc. .

Originally posted by mjs

MINE CLEANED UP SOME WHAT TO. ONLY WHEN IT REACHED FULL TEMP. THE WARMER IT GOT THE FURTHER YOU COULD REV IT BEFORE THE THE SMOKE & MISS . AGAIN SOME ONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG . THE REASON FOR THIS CLEANING UP WITH TEMP. IS BECAUSE THE FUEL IS BURNING MORE COMPLETE WITH THE HELP OF CYLINDER TEMP. MY 94 ACTED LIKE IT WAS 10 DEG. OUT AT 70 DEG . THIS ALL WAS DO TO AIR IN THE SYSTEM AND THIS WILL DELAY THE TIMING

 

[krs]

If the cap lock key was on the first letter of sentences would be lowercase using normal capitalization.

 

[JKouzez]

so when is the meet in kerrville

 

[mjs]

Sorry for all the CAPS . this is just a bad habit do to my help at work with veary bad eye sight. any way any luck yet with the truck yet?