White Smoke with Low Temperatures

[Ted W. Hazen]

I earlier posted a topic on white smoke when starting while temperature below 40 degrees. Replaced the pressure valve in the fuel pump but still noted the smoke until engine warmed a bit. Grid heater checked and it's OK. Lately the temperatures have dropped to single digits and I've noticed a fair amount of white smoke while accelerating lightly or while coming down a grade while little or no accelerator. Appears to me to be a cold weather condition and I'm putting unburned fuel out the back. Doesn't do this when the temperature is above 40. Any ideas?

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1994,5dp,3. 54,Prime-Loc,Pac Brake, 230/605 TST plate,Firestone Air Bags in rear,full synthetics(Amzoil)in drive train, 100K+

 

[Missouri Mule]

Ted,
Not an expert but I think Patriot is on the right line.
If your Air intake heater system( sensor,relay,heaters) is working correctly that wouldn't be your problem.
Heaters only aid in starting motor and warming intake air for short time after engine comes to life. As I recall about 3 to 5 minutes or under 10 mph.
Fuel heater is what I think your problem could be. From memory reading manual the fuel heater comes when fuel temp is below or at 40 degrees it turns off when fuel temp reaches 80 degrees. Actually if the fuel heater is not working correctly this could cause fuel to gel. I imagine once the engine warms up the fuel going thru injector pump is going to take some warmth to fuel in tank.
I haven't driven in extreme cold weather for along time but as I recall even gas engines exghaust turns white when exiting tail pipe( moisture=water created during igniton of fuel).
I thought that black smoke was un burned fuel because to much fuel in cylinder(not enugh air)? Usually fuel at proper temp.
White smoke was caused by not enough fuel (or to much air) in cylinder? or not enough burnable fuel in cylinder? Because of fuel being cold or air to cold or engine part failure(such as return fuel valve, lift pump... ) ?
How is your rpm at idle? Mite have to turnlow idle up.

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Bill Thomas
Missouri Mule - 96 Wht 4X4 ST CC,5 spd, 3. 54, 8 ft bed, 1 ft high cheater boards.
99 Freightliner bl/wht FL60 ISB-5. 9 24v,215 hp,520 tq,6 spd, 3. 59 nsr,16 ft box, 19. 5 tires,Wt/gvw 11,000/23000

[This message has been edited by Missouri Mule (edited 12-17-2000). ]

 

[DieselB59]

White smoke when cold? One thing comes to mind. TIMING. When the injection timing is out, the truck will make more white smoke when it is cold than other trucks that are running in time. Mine doesn't make any on a cold startup. Well, I don't get cold startups anymore thanks to the Espar, but it still didn't belch white smoke back when I didn't have the heater.

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Chris Timochko
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, A. W. D. Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s.
*******************************************************************************
Project U96 - 1996 3500 2WD racer. A. W. D. Marine Ultra Low Compression, A. W. D. Teflon-coated Pistons, A. W. D. High Lift Camshaft, Ported and Honed Cylinder Head, Intake and Exhaust manifold; A. W. D. HX40 Turbocharger, ATS 3pc Exhaust Manifold, A. W. D. Water Injection, A. W. D. Custom Fabricated Fuel System, Race Spec A. W. D. /BD P7100 Injection Pump, A. W. D. Custom High Flow Fuel Injection Nozzles, BD Auto transmission and Custom TC, Weld Draglites, Goodyear Eagle Drag Slicks, 5" Single Stack Through The Bed, Mag-Hytec on Rear and Transmission.

 

[LarryB]

What about blue smoke at idle?

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1972 Chinook class C with 96/215 5spd, 4/5" exh, 4"BD, MagHytec, 85gal fuel, K&N RE0880, AutoMeter, 370's, BD gov kit, BD afc kit, 16cm, 16%btdc, yada-yada-yada
www.fostertruck.com/cummins

 

[1tuffram]

I live in cold country (Washington, Montana, and currently Colorado). Like most have said it is the nature of the beast to have a white/blue smoke from the exhaust until the engine starts to build some heat. I have noticed once the heater starts to put out a little heat the exhaust usually is no longer putting out very much if any white smoke.

I think what you are describing is normal. If the truck is still doing it when it is up to operating temp, then you probably do have a problem.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The white smoke is normal and you get more of it with bigger injectors. Try to minimize it with lower rpm and getting a small load on the engine asap to begin warming it up.

 

[Turbo]

White smoke on start up is normal for a diesel all that it means is that your fuel is coming out of your cylinder completly unburned, In other words one or two of your cylinders are not firing when it is cold due to cold intake air temperatures and cold cylinders, the temp of your fuel I do not believe would effect this. As long as it isnt gelling. You can also probably fell the engine miss a little to. The compressed air just isnt reaching a high enough temp to get the shot of diesel fuel to burn. I thought I might have heard someone mention a different problem though when you stated that your engine smoked down a hill did you mean when it was cold or all the time if it is warm? You have nothing to worry about.

 

[The patriot]

Ted, I think it's characteristic of the beast.
I was using straight #2, and it had a small amount of white smoke. For testing purposes, I added 1-2 gallons of 1-K kerosene to a full tank. No smoke.
I dont reccomend doing this, the kero comes dyed red,(un taxed-off road fuel) so if you get stopped, it's a real no-no.
You'd be best to see if your supplier is using a "winter blend".
Even if it still smokes a bit with this, I wouldnt sweat it. Just as long as the fuel heater and grid heater works, nothing you can do.
Maybe a resident expert could double check this for me, but I think I'm correct.

 

[Ramrod]

You don't say in your signature how many miles you have. I would agree what Chris(diesel5. 9) says about pump timing. Have you ever had your pump timed.

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98 3500 12v 4x4 Quad Cab SLT Larimie, All the bombing parts accumulating on my workbench. A few more on order, and a few coming from Santa.

80 Porsche 911 SC Turbo Look Porsche Club Racing Trackcar, Totally Bombed
Cannondale Killer V 900 SL

 

[Power Wagon]

Donnelly is right - big injectors are more likely to give you some white smoke when cold. However, the smoke should clear up by the time it's been run 2-3 minutes. If it doesn't, your injection timing is probably off.

Since the timing pins are notorious for being inaccurate, I would suggest you have hte pump itself timed for 14. 5 or so, and the TDC pin accurately located, and then the beast put back together.

Even if you have big injectors, this should cut down the smoke to a brief period at startup and initial run - as well as improving your performance and economy.

Since you are in Leavenworth, you should take the nice drive down to Milton Freewater, and have Wentland Diesel do it for you.


[This message has been edited by Power Wagon (edited 12-18-2000). ]

 

[Ted W. Hazen]

Sounds like the pump timing is the likely culprit. Currently mileage is in the low 20s empty. What are the consequences of driving with the pump out of time? Thank you so much for the replys.

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1994,5dp,3. 54,Prime-Loc,Pac Brake, 230/605 TST plate,Firestone Air Bags in rear,full synthetics(Amzoil)in drive train, 100K+

 

[illflem]

Ted,your your timing couldn't be too far off with good mpgs like that,I wouldn't worry about damage,but if your timing has never been checked it should be,most all are off from the factory. The Dodge dealer in Omak has an excellent Cummins mechcanic,avoid the Wenatchee dealer they'll make things worse. Friends have said that Lloyd's and Mobile Fleet Service in Wen. also do good work. MFS also sells Cummins parts much cheaper than the dealer.

 

[FL60cummins]

Definetly check the timing. Advancing to 15-16 degrees will clear up some smoke possibly the majority of it, unless it's realy cold.

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When they come for my guns they can have them, BULLETS FIRST!!
<<>>Charles Pyatt<<>
*Protect your rights given by our constitution*

 

[Turbo]

I am not understanding why you guys are telling him to check his pump timing if it is smoking on a cold startup and then going away, It is a mechanical diesel engine, first off it doesnt hurt anything, and secondly well, before I get started maybe I am missing something no disrespect meant to you guys trying to help I just dont understand why you would direct him in that way.

 

[illflem]

Turbo,read Ted's first post closer,he's saying he gets smoke while driving after warmup.

 

[Rebel]

<FONT color=blue>Power Wagon,
What is the proceedure used to veryify the TDC pin or where can one find the proceedure? I inquired about having my timming advaced at a local reputable shop and they wanted $210. 00. They also seemed more interested in selling me a BANKS system at the same time bad mouthing TST Products. Needless to say I'd rather do it myself. Already ordered the timming tool kit from Miller Tools. TIA

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1997 2500 Ext Cab 4X4,5 spd,3. 54's,Pac brake,Rancho 9000's,Centerforce clutch,K&N airfilter,Missing Cat,Isspro gauges,and #11plate(280hp/680tq)AFC medium spring

 

[JJW_ND]

While timing might be related to white smoke with an engine at normal operating temps this time of year it is most likely cold combustion and normal.

Below -10 all diesels (that I see) smoke whether their warm or not. All Dodges I have been around white smoke at startup when temps go below 10 above. The colder the temps the more they white smoke. Even after idling a few minutes, still white smoke (talking cold out)and when attempting to drive the clouds roll out and the engine stumbles as it trys to keep the fire lit. Once you have some heat truck runs fine.

When your sucking in -10 to -30 ambient air even the grid heaters have little effect on heating the combustion to the point it will burn all fuel.

If the wind would quit blowing the truck stops would be one big cloud or white smoke.

jjw
ND

 

[LarryB]

Reb
The only way I know of to find true TDC is to use the "dead stop" method. I made my own tool for this. It is basically an old injector with an extension that protrudes into the combustion chamber and will stop the piston dead before reaching TDC. You rotate the engine by hand one way until the piston hits the dead stop, mark the vibe damper. Rotate the engine the other way until it again hits the dead stop, mark the vibe damper again. Measure the marks and find distance half way between the marks. This is exact TDC. Be sure to disconnect the batteries before inserting the dead stop to prevent accidental cranking and damage. This is the only true way to find TDC that I know of. Maybe someone has an easier way but I have been using this method for years with good results.
Larry

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1972 Chinook class C with 96/215 5spd, 4/5" exh, 4"BD, MagHytec, 85gal fuel, K&N RE0880, AutoMeter, 370's, BD gov kit, BD afc kit, 16cm, 16%btdc, yada-yada-yada
www.fostertruck.com/cummins

 

[Turbo]

Alright Ted now I am confused is it smoking at startup and when you first take off like maybe the first few blocks or is it smoking even after that? Now another question if it is only at the startup my question to you is why are you worried about it, after reading your first post I took a second to read your signature you are dumping out unburned fuel even when it is warm with the tst plate you have in it. So it couldnt be an environmental thing. Now if it is smoking on deceleration like down a hill even when it is warm that is an easy one that isnt timing that would be burning oil not fuel and once again nothing to worry about as that is one of the only times your engine will ever be close to a vaccum inside the engine and it pulls in oil of the guides. Now I hope I got it straight this time and I think if you pay to get your timming checked you are wasting $$$. You know how to cure it if it really bugs you , plug it in at night Hope this helps

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Larry B,

When I start my truck cold, Not plugged in or Espar on, I get some blue smoke. Never get white.

I saw this in the Bosch Diesel Fuel Injection 1st Edition ( thanks for the tip Chris T #ad
):

"When the engine is cold, the exhaust gas consitituents which are immediately noticable are the non-oxidized or only partly oxidized hydrocarbons which are directly visible in the form or white or blue smoke, and the strongly smelling aldehydes"

Apparently blue smoke is simlilar to white on cold startup. (Our rings & valve seals are probably fine)

It goes on to say :

"The following contribute to the reduction of exhaust gas emmissions: Accurate start-of- injection timing Which was already stated, and goes on to say everything a STOCK truck has in the way of fuel delivery; precision-manufactured injection nozzles, precisely-defined fuel- spray geometry..... ect.


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Bill R
94 2500 SLT 4x4 5 Speed, 3. 54 LS, JRE 4" exhaust, Autometer Pyro, Boost & Water temp gauges, Bosch 215 HP injectors, Timing @ 14. 7 º, JRE Stage III #4 plate 270/675, AFC spring kit, Scotty Air, Bully Dog Propane Injection, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Optima Red Tops, Geno`s Exhaust Blanket,Espar Heater (won it!), Synthetic lubes throughout.