Who is running 100% veggie oil?

[Garry Verheyden]

I am interested in buying a mixing system in the next few weeks to recycle oil from McDonalds or other fast food place, and use 100% in my truck.

I did run my truck out of fuel about a month ago and put in a gallon of new canola cooking oil into it. I ran it for 3 miles to the gas station. I noticed no difference in anything other than the engine knock was quieter than normal.

Hopfully someone with more mileage will chime in here. Thanks,

Garry

 

[67guzzler]

Hi Garry. Check out the alternate fuels section here on this board and see if you can find some information. Also see:



http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/cfrm/f/898605551



http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html



I read a study that said the glycerol in straight WVO / SVO might harm or accelerate the wear of engine parts. I'm no authority tho. There is a lot of research out there if you google for it.



Good luck!

 

[Garry Verheyden]

Thanks for the links Jay. I read some of it and it sounds like a bit of a pain in the colder months. I wonder if the 20% methanol used in the mixing process makes the oil thinner for the colder weather?



Garry

 

[67guzzler]

Garry -- Are you confusing the methanol and lye used to convert oil to diesel? The transesterification (In organic chemistry, transesterification is the process of exchanging the alkoxy group of an ester compound by another alcohol. These reactions are often catalyzed by the addition of an acid or base) process uses methanol along with lye to remove glycerol and create biodiesel. People who run WVO / SVO don't use methanol (to my knowledge). They just warm the oil enough to lower the viscosity, filter it and then run it. I could be wrong but that's my understanding... .

 

[DragonflyDriver]

I am interested in buying a mixing system in the next few weeks to recycle oil from McDonalds or other fast food place, and use 100% in my truck.

I did run my truck out of fuel about a month ago and put in a gallon of new canola cooking oil into it. I ran it for 3 miles to the gas station. I noticed no difference in anything other than the engine knock was quieter than normal.

Hopfully someone with more mileage will chime in here. Thanks,

Garry

How hard was it to get started after running out?

 

[Garry Verheyden]

It actually sputtered for a bit and then I pulled over and shut it down. Unlike my 96 that I ran out of fuel 5 yrs ago, it had no warning and just shut down. I had to pump it by hand to prime it. The 03 just had to turn over for a few seconds and then started no problem. I guess with the electronic injectors, it will bleed the air out on its own.

JGann, I hope you are right, since I plan on mixing the lye and methanol(about 20% methanol). So does this mixing process make it possible to just run it without pre heating it(except for when it is below freezing when I would probably mix it 50-50 with diesel#1) Thanks,



Garry

 

[67guzzler]

Garry -- I still think you're confusing things. Making biodiesel is far more complicated than that. Please google for "biodiesel kit" or "biodiesel machine" and see what's out there. There are about 10 to 12 steps to making biodiesel. Biodiesel and WVO/ SVO are not the same thing at all. Running WVO / SVO is running WVO/ SVO without modification other than filtering and heating the oil. Nothing to dilute it. Making biodiesel is a complicated process that uses methanol and lye.



The title of the thread is "Who is running 100% veggie oil?" and that's what let me to post the links to how to run SVO.



Do you want to run SVO / WVO or do you want to make your own biodiesel?

 

[Garry Verheyden]

JGann, I was talking to Azure Biodiesel. They said they have a fully automated system that you just pour the WVO, lye and methanol into the appropriate containers. You then plug in the 110volt plug and the water hose and the rest is done automatically. It is supposed to produce 40Gals. /day. I used the words 100% veggie oil, since the company said most of the methanol is lost during the process. Would I end up with biodiesel, or is it still just called WVO?? I'm still a little confused. Thanks,



Garry

 

[67guzzler]

Gotcha. That kit makes biodiesel. When you mention 100% veggie oil, either SVO / WVO, people are going to assume it's untreated and just filtered and warmed.



That kit is a biodiesel kit. You'll end up with biodiesel and some wasteproduct. I don't know about recapturing the methanol or not. I'm sure the good folks there would know.



Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JLovas]

I wonder what your local HP would say if they dipped your tank and found veggie oil/biodiesel. Is there a way to pay the road tax???

 

[Garry Verheyden]

Jay, I'm still learning what to call it. They did say I would still have to blend it with petrolium diesel and an antigel when it was below freezing. That is why I was wondering if it was any different than strait WVO. I think it would still be a good idea to put a preheater in the tank that I'm making with a thermostat that went off as soon as it was warm. I would also like to run an aluminum tube through the centre of the aluminum tank I'm building, to plumb my radiator coolant through.

JLovas, I think the authorities would have a hard time dipping your tank and finding out you have biodiesel. They would be looking for a pink or purple colour which wouldn't exist in the biodiesel. If you wanted to be totally legal, you could log your total mileage and pay the road taxes at the end of the year. It would still be far cheaper than running normal diesel at over $3 a gallon.



Garry

 

[Duck]

Biodiesel (made of New VO or WVO) is much closer to #2 than running SVO. You don't have to worry so much about pre-heating and all that nonsense.

 

[CharlesKennedy]

Hello - nice to see the words 100% and WVO (waste veg. oil) in the same sentence. I was going to mess around with making biodiesel. but the pains of getting 25 - 50 gallons of methonal and keeping it around for a while where one thing. then if you do a good 2 step acid/base process you will need Sulfuric acid and the lye. . mixing, setting, checking...



Anyway - I am now making a conversion to run 100% veg oil (back tank) in my 2004 3rd gen. Actually I know a few already doing this in 3rd. gen. . You just need to have a sound exchange system on the Veg. oil line. . Start your truck on diesel - shut it down on diesel - and run on veg. oil and pass the Exxon station on the way to a national park. . the heat exchange system is basically a tank heat exchanger to get the vol out of the tank, a FASS pump with coolent heat line and alum jacket around filter for heat, a hose in hose heat system between FASS and engine room - and a final plate, other heat exchanger before injectors - with a temp/pressure gauge. . a teed - 2 check valve - switch over up front for switching between diesel/veg oil. . 3 port valves for switching return lines to correct tank. . a manual valve to have a closed veg oil system for testing, etc... . plus more stuff - but I am tired of typing...



ps: you only use chinnese, asian rest. used oil that has not been setting outback. prefilter down to 3 - 5 microns. . let it set for a few weeks... etc...



Oo. :-{} :{

 

[btanner]

I wonder what your local HP would say if they dipped your tank and found veggie oil/biodiesel. Is there a way to pay the road tax???

I've posted this before but here it is again





IRS Publication 510 covers some of the tax related issues concerning Blended Fuel and Excise Taxes.



IRS Form 720 is used to file Excise Taxes.



This is a summary of the information we have on the topic of taxes and Biodiesel production:



There IS a tax on diesel fuel and blended diesel fuel. This tax also applies to Biodiesel fuel.



This tax is paid by submitting Form 720 Quarterly Federal Excise Tax Return.



The person that produces the blended diesel fuel, outside the bulk transfer / terminal system (blender), is liable for the tax which is imposed under IRC section 4081(b) upon sale or removal.



The number of gallons of blended diesel fuel subject to the tax is the difference between the total number of gallons of blended diesel fuel removed or sold, and the number of gallons of previously taxed fuel used to produce the blended diesel fuel.



An exclusion from tax on the "blended taxable fuel" mixture is provided in Treasury Regulations section 48. 4081-1(c)(1)(ii) for minor blending if: during any calendar quarter the removal or sale of the mixture in aggregate by the blender is less than 400 gallons.



For more information and to view these documents go directly to www.irs.gov and click on Publications/Forms. Look for Publication 510 and Form 720

 

[Coolslice]

OK, Forgive my lack of knowledge here but..... Will my 600 run on filtered WVO as long as it's warm? This whole issue is confusing to me. What will my truck run on without harming it? And what will it NOT run on? :-laf

 

[mhenon]

1. SVO... Straight Vegetable Oil... just like the stuff your wife buys to deep fry some chicken. Canola oil, Corn oil, Olive oil, etc. .



2. WVO... Waste Vegetable Oil... like the oil thats left over after your wife has finished cooking the chicken. Most folks get it from a restaurant or some place.



3. Biodiesel... a product made from WVO. Used as a direct replacement for diesel fuel. You can use it straight (B100 or 100% biodiesel) or mixed with D#2 in any proportion (B20 is 20% biodiesel & 80% D#2).



Using SVO or WVO usually requires that you heat the oil first to thin it out. It's some 40 times thicker than diesel fuel and can cause problems if you try to run it in a modern, direct injected, computer controlled engine. Some of the older, indirect injected engines can burn it with no problem.

Biodiesel, on the other hand, is a no brainer. Just use like it diesel fuel and your truck will never know the difference. It's nice to know the source for the biodiesel however. Someone brewing it up in the back yard might come up with a nasty batch of fuel. Anything you get at a commercial filling station (some stations are now selling B5, B20 or even B100) is going to be fine.

Mike

 

[Mr. Hemi]

Check this out, although it sounds too good to be true.

http://www.dieselsecret.com/

 

[67guzzler]

Most think it is. There is a discussion about that in the Alternative Fuels forum.

 

[DSullivan]

waste veggie oil

What if you just mix the filtered veggie oil with diesel into your tank??????

Would this thin it out enough??????

 

[roverhybrids]

What if you just mix the filtered veggie oil with diesel into your tank??????

Would this thin it out enough??????

You can mix in 10-20% SVO to #2 and stay within the viscosity of biodiesel.

I am not saying you should do it!, especially on a 24v engine.



DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK!



But if you do you should mix the diesel and SVO together first, let it settle, then if it doesn't make any waxes add in the mixture to our tank. If it does form some waxes filter them out and resettle again. Repeat as necessary.



All the filtering should be done cold IE room temperature.



As a final note virtually all studies that have been done on running straight SVO in a diesel engine have had bad results when using unheated SVO.



Just because most diesels will run on SVO doesn't mean you should continue to do it and not have to face problems if you don't have a well designed conversion to heat the SVO.