Whos got nitrous or propane injection and does it help

[evldsl]

I'm looking at getting a kit for the propane or nitrous injection to help with the towing over hills. Any ideas?

 

[fox]

Why not just add some fuel and air?

Propane is best used for mileage increases running empty because it is like added timing.

What year is your truck and what mods?

 

[Forrest Nearing]

nitrous is not what you want for towing!

 

[evldsl]

Why not just add some fuel and air?

Propane is best used for mileage increases running empty because it is like added timing.

What year is your truck and what mods?

4. 5 auto,4x4 3500,afe intake, attitude and controller, 5" exhaust

 

[okayred]

Propane Injection

I run propane. I tow a 16K 5th wheel. Some timing advance without propane will help your fuel economy even when loaded.



I like the added power the propane gives. I get significant increased MPG unloaded with propane and a mild increase loaded - but better than without.



Your black soot cloud will turn dark blue with propane on...



I have mine set at 7psi boost signal, but again, I run a 12v so no messy O2 sensors and whatnot...

 

[JR2]

If you figure in the cost of the propane do you still show an increase in $$ per mile??

 

[okayred]

Its a net decrease in $$ per mile - I get more miles per $$!!!



We figured it out - right now Diesel is $3. 75 in my neighborhood. Propane is $16. 00 for a 20# bottle fill.



I get 13 mpg @65mph without propane for 325 miles thats 25gallons = $93. 50

22 mpg @ 65 mph with propane (+100hp!) 325 miles thats 15gallons = $56. 25

Depending on the settings (but set consistent for above example) its about 325 miles before I switch propane bottles. So its a difference of $ 37. 25-16. 00= $ 21. 25 savings and the sweet top-end kick from the propane! So I guess that until Diesel drops down to... $2. 00/gal again (net gain of +$5. 00), or propane goes up... Propane is a good value.



I'm putting it on the Jetta too... We're going for 60mpg!

 

[TriSum]

I have mine set at 7psi boost signal, but again, I run a 12v so no messy O2 sensors and whatnot...

How much boost are you showing while towing ? Does the propane run consistently and last you 325 miles ?



David

 

[Curious Dave]

okayred... whose propane system are you using? How much was it and did you install yourself?

 

[okayred]

Sorry for the delay in reply. I was "away on business. "



Boost during towing varies with speed and grade. 60mph cruising with 18K load boost is around 17-21psi (stock turbo) on level ground.



The system I have is from American Alternative Fuels (Gas & Diesel Performance Hybrid Conversions) and I did install it myself. It was a breeze. I have a Delta tool box where I have the regulator and 20# propane cylinder. T's off the boost from the gauge and propane line fits throught the 5/8" hole I drilled in the $45 BHAF. I shoved the hose into the intake tube about 16" from the compressor wheel.



I have been tweaking the system for a while and what i've found out is that it requires a very minimal amount of propane to increase your fuel economy. Anything above the bare minimum just equates to added horse power. Its an interesting setup. AAF website shows in-cab adjusters (for an extra $250 or so).



I became a dealer when fuel prices were really high. I don't think fuel will be this cheap for long though. If anyone is interested in a system, PM me and I will get you a unit for a good price.

 

[okayred]

How much boost are you showing while towing ? Does the propane run consistently and last you 325 miles ?



David

To answer the rest of your question, the propane will run consistently but - if you run one tank setup, the propane tank can freeze up (which they are prone to do). There are two ways to avoid this in summer time: get an automatic switch from an RV dealer, or run a really big propane tank. The only way to prevent freeze up in winter (20*F or lower) is to run a heater hose around your propane tank or inside the tool box to keep the tank warm.



As far as lasting me 325 miles, I have tweaked the settings again for economy only and I had to change the tank out at 400 with same fuel economy.



Its hard to quantify though - Its a neat system if you like the extra power and economy, but it takes patience to leave the settings alone through one or two tankfulls of fuel!

 

[TAbbott]

okayred said: "The only way to prevent freeze up in winter (20*F or lower) is to run a heater hose around your propane tank or inside the tool box to keep the tank warm. "



That may be true for a vapor system, which cools the tank through evaporation of the gas into the air intake of the truck, but a liquid draw system will work to about -40 degrees (or whatever the precise boiling point of liquid propane is) with no problem. I have a liquid draw system on my big rig that works very well. The key when using propane is that while a little is good, too much is not. The idea is to keep the propane/air ratio to less than 5% (too lean to support combustion) so there is no danger of the propane mixture self igniting (no timing control).



Run the mixture very lean and enjoy the benefits of the system without the drawbacks of colliding flame fronts in the cylinder and resulting broken parts. Basically, if you hear it start to ping or knock, your mixture is too rich.

 

[Pat@BD]

Water methanol injection is going to be a much safer product to use than propane. You don't see the spike in cylinder pressures that you do with propane. With the Snow MPG MAX kit you can pick up to an additional 50hp but you will also see a fairly significant drop in exhaust gas temperatures.



Propane injection comes from semi trucks. With most semi trucks they aren't running a chip to enhance the performance. With most of the chips out there today for the pickups you will find that they advance the injection timing. Propane has a much lower flash point than diesel. So essentially you end up with the propane burning faster than you want it to. This leads the timing being advanced even further. You then end up with detonation which is hard on the tops of the pistons and head gaskets. If you aren't running a chip it will work OK. I like to say leave the propane for your bbq:-laf

 

[MStearns]

How does CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) injection compare with propane injection?? I couple articles this week about CNG systems and am curious.

 

[rivercat]

How does CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) injection compare with propane injection?? I couple articles this week about CNG systems and am curious.

me to!

good thread!

 

[okayred]

That may be true for a vapor system, which cools the tank through evaporation of the gas into the air intake of the truck, but a liquid draw system will work to about -40 degrees (or whatever the precise boiling point of liquid propane is) with no problem. I have a liquid draw system on my big rig that works very well. The key when using propane is that while a little is good, too much is not. The idea is to keep the propane/air ratio to less than 5% (too lean to support combustion) so there is no danger of the propane mixture self igniting (no timing control).



Run the mixture very lean and enjoy the benefits of the system without the drawbacks of colliding flame fronts in the cylinder and resulting broken parts. Basically, if you hear it start to ping or knock, your mixture is too rich.

All really good points! Especially regarding the 5% rule of thumb - the system won't pay for itself with broken parts.



Again, I run a 12 valve with the AAF setup. Other setups include the liquid draw system and a permanently installed propane tank (probably great for cold weather installs). I prefer the convenience of 20# bottle swaps or a remote hose from my 5th wheel tanks.



I have talked with drivers with CNG who claim as good or better MPG. When fuel was really expensive I spoke with a few who used H2/O2 generators with positive results.