Whos had a bad CP3, not FCA and what were the symptoms?

[JCobb]

I am trying to diagnose a problem with my truck and figured this would be a helpful way. If you have had a confirmed bad CP3 injector pump (not FCA, unless a new CP3 comes with a new FCA) what were your trucks symptoms before it was fixed? Thanks in advance.

 

[TSimonson]

Just had mine replaced today. Just had a small fuel leak that I traced to weepage around the pump that flowed past the ECM and on to my driveway. Only symptom.

 

[RockyArnold]

My buddy had his just replaced truck had no power and set codes . fuel mileage was real bad 285 mile to a tank of fuel. The truck is a 05 with 27000 on it. They are telling him they need to run the valves because the tech said he noticed them out of adjustment. When he gets the truck back it is forsale. The truck has never been worked hard at all. He just pulls a 28 foot inclosed trailer with a circle track car in it. This is his 3rd dodge I know he will buy another one because He loves my new megacab. hope this helps.

 

[HBarlow]

What's a FCA? I'm also trying to determine the cause of a rattle when accelerating at highway speed that sounds like the "fuel knock" described here and a rough idle.



Harvey

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The Fuel Control Actuator (FCA) is a silver cylinder, about 1” diameter, on the back side of the aluminum block of the CP3 pump on the driver's side. The FCA has a black cap and wiring connector sticking out toward the rear of the truck with a wiring connector and two wires from the engine wiring harness attached. It controls fuel rail pressure and delivery and is variable with accelerator pedal position. It is deceptively small and easily removed while having a huge effect on power and drivability. Rough idle, rough running, and rattling like “fuel knock” can often be traced to an FCA that is out of specification.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks Joe. I appreciate your answer and detailed explanation.



A former Dodge dealership mechanic/friend told me while my truck was still in warranty that a bad FCA (he couldn't remember the proper name) could be the cause of my rattle/knocking sounds. I took it to the local ZERO STAR dealer, Frontier Dodge, Lubbock, TX with a valid complaint. The truck was bone stock, properly maintained, and in warranty.



The mechanic who was supposed to be their Cummins expert was too lazy and/or too stupid to work with STAR to isolate and identify the bad component and turned the truck out again within a very short time denying a problem could be found and recommending I put "snake oil" or some similar mythical product in the fuel tank to clean the injectors.



The dealership knows me and knows I won't buy trucks from them or pay for service or repair work there either so I couldn't be too outraged over their bad service. I filed a phone complaint with the Dodge division of Daimler-Chrysler but DC ignored the complaint or turned it back to the dealer to ignore.



The truck ran fine and I was busy transporting trailers so continued working. The rough idle started later and the fuel knock seems more pronounced now, some of the time.



I hate to buy a new CP3 to get a new FCA and/or a set of 6 new injectors in hopes of indentifying the problem without knowing the actual cause.



Can a skilled Cummins tech identify a bad FCA? Can a separate FCA now be purchased and installed without replacing the CP3?



Harvey

 

[DPKetchum]

From what I've read the FCA can be had seperate and for along time now. Also can be bought at a Cummins store for a fraction of what it sells for at a Dodge dealer.

 

[HBarlow]

DPKetchum:



Thanks for the response. Is it a simple r&r procedure or does it require calibration or adjustment to match the CP3 or engine?



Harvey

 

[DPKetchum]

Remove and replace. Be careful with the torx head screws that hold it on. Use the right size torx.

 

[PBrauer]

DPKetchum:



Thanks for the response. Is it a simple r&r procedure or does it require calibration or adjustment to match the CP3 or engine?



Harvey

FCA is $95 at a Cummins dist. (for an '06 anyway). I wanted to buy one the other day (when I picked up those studs), but he was out. You will hear that it isn't serviced separately but it is. Even the Cummins dealer I went to initially though that was the case but he found it. Part of his "normal stock", he was just out. I either forgot to write down the pn or lost it. "Fuel Control Actuator" is the right nomenclature but I think it was a little diff. in his system. Pretty sure it was still "(something) Actuator" though.



Three small torx bolts. You might find a lot of stuff about replacing the bolts or delicate install but either something has changed or it's all just plain invalid. I took mine out about two weeks ago. It's an O-ring seal. Torque spec. is low but all you really need to do is to make sure it's pressed in flush to the pump then common sense/even torque on the bolts. 62 in-lbs is the spec.



Try to push it "straight" in until the o-ring pops past the edge. That's just "good practice" to avoid cutting o-rings on machined edges. You can twist it a little to get it the rest of the way in.



One of the bolts is a little hard to see or get to but not that bad. As long as you know there are three... Only a 5-10 minute job.



No adjustments. It's just a small solenoid valve. There's an o-ring to seal it against the face of the pump and another that separates the two passages. Very simple device. The part that goes into the pump is surprisingly small. Don't forget to plug it back in...



I'll be replacing mine soon and expect to post a whole bunch of symptoms and whether or not they clear up. One of my symptoms is many, many versions/levels/here today, gone tomorrow variations of the infamous diesel/timing knock... 200K's worth.



Coming soon, I guess.

 

[HBarlow]

PBrauer



Thanks for an excellent post. Great info. I'm going to order one today.



Harvey

 

[PBrauer]

FCA for '06,

Mopar part number:

5183245AA ($181. 80, dlr in NH)

Cummins part number:

4932457 ($95, Cummins Northeast)

I feel for you guys in Canada...

$177. 35 at Cummins, Eastern Canada



Mopar might be hard to find in stock AND avail. at dealers.

He found several dealers that had exactly one, which probably means they are being ordered against a work order/repair.



If you call a Cummins Distributor they can have any part that is in stock in the Memphis warehouse overnighted for 15% extra.

Extremely reliable and the Dist. can order parts from Memphis until late in the evening.

Works great if you call "ahead" on your route.



Links to the Cummins Distributor lists:

http://www.cumminspower.com/na/locator/us/

http://www.cumminspower.com/na/locator/canada/



More to follow, including the possibility that the FCA can/could dump enough fuel to make you think you've lost your lift pump.

I can get 20psi to the suction line by running both pumps (stock in-tank + Carter/BD in-line) with the engine OFF.

... but it goes to zero as soon as I START the engine.

Takes about a minute to get a gallon thru the h2o drain w/engine running.

Nothing wrong with the pumps.

Filter only has about 1K miles on it and I'm out of new ones.



I'd give anything for those return flow test fittings right about now.

This trip has been a total meltdown...

 

[HBarlow]

PBrauer,



Thanks very much for the part numbers. I tried unsuccessfully at Cummins Amarillo and MOPAR4LESS to buy the FCA. Cummins couldn't find a part number and I've been on the road so haven't heard from MOPAR4LESS so don't know why they couldn't order it. I'll call today.



I will be on the phone to Cummins again this morning. This time I can tell them the part number and maybe they can order it now.



I appreciate your help.



Sorry you're having so much trouble with your truck this trip. If you ever need help while near Lubbock, TX give me a call. I'm in the book. I have access to a metal shop building, compressor, tools, etc. (formerly mine, now my son-in-law and daughter's) and the friend who is a former Dodge dealership mechanic.



Harvey

Harvey

 

[WKruger]

I might have missed it, but was there any codes involved or just fuel seepage, bad mileage, and lack of power.

 

[Bob4x4]

I might have missed it, but was there any codes involved or just fuel seepage, bad mileage, and lack of power.

usually no codes.



Bob

 

[dan shss]

When my cp3 was bad the symtoms are as follows,,,when i would be going down the road and had the throttle pushed down more than about 25% my railpresure would drop from like 15k all the way down to around 3k the truck would just fall on its face. . I changed the fca and it still did the same think. the truck would idle and free rev ok but when you put it under a load it would loose rail pressure...

 

[DPKetchum]

Did you take it apart to see what went bad with it?

 

[BGarofalo]

I had one replaced by the dealership under warrenty on my 03. Truck ran totally normal 95% of the time. The other 5% it would randomlly shut off. Didnt matter where the throttle was or how fast you were going it would die. I would loose brakes and powersteering at highway speed . The funny thing was the truck would start right back up and run normal again. After a few weeks of testing and replacing parts they diagnosed it as the cp3 and replaced it. Been fine since. To me it sounds like the fca was bad and they just replaced the pump. What ever... Its fixed.

 

[JasonCzerak]

Checked here in Minnesota, the part is only $108 from Npower in White bear lake. . 2 day or so shipping from Chicago. Nothing here on hand locally unfortunately

 

[DonFitzwater]

2004 3500, -40 outside, plugged in all night. Cranked right up then died immediately. Took to dealer and they said the cp3 had failed due to water intrusion and would not be covered under warranty. Froze and busted they claim(I never saw the part). They ended up fixing it because no wif light ever came on. Probably not what your looking for but that's the only failure I've ever had with a cp3.