Why should we avoid using remanufactured injectors?

[BrianAtSmarty]

Why should we avoid using remanufactured injectors?



Lets scrutinize the examples of higher mileage injectors that are sent in for remanufacture!



What do we normally find in examples of old used injectors?



Particle contamination causing:



- 1. Wear at the nozzle guidance causing leakage, a higher friction between nozzle needle and nozzle body, bad starting performance and reduced injection quantity at lower rail pressures.



- 2. Abrasive wear at the valve seat causing leakage (bad starting performance and higher injection quantity) and leakage is causing a later pressure build up to close the nozzle needle.

-

3. Wear at the valve piston (similar failure consequences as a worn nozzle guidance).



Fuel deposits causing a sticking armature group.



Water contamination causing corrosion with the result of sticking armature group or cracks of a valve piece or injector body caused by corrosion marks making the material weak.



Extruded high pressure sealing ring (only on injectors with manufacturing date 2003-2005)



Cracked injector body because of higher than standard rail pressure.





The reason to not use remanufactured injectors is simple, because only failed parts and the nozzle get replaced when the injector gets repaired. All other parts of the injector will remain. So a reman injector has wear already on its internal parts and will never reach the same running time or will it function like a new injector. (that is in the case of using a Bosch reman injector with the number 0986xxxxxx)



We have examined thousands of sets of injectors which were destined for remanufacturing. Very often there were injector sets with a single remanufactured injector in it which was primarily the one in the set which didn´t work anymore.



Evidence shows that most companies attempting to remanufacture CR injectors appear to not have the knowledge to remanufacture injectors properly. They are trying to finish the sealing surfaces between the nozzle and the injector body. These surfaces originally have a concave shape which they wrongly remove. That also effects the nozzle needle lift by the material they remove in the grinding process and they do not adjust it afterwards. Very often the armature lift gets no adjustment or they simply get dirt into the injector…. and so on. The list of issues caused by these remanufacturers is long.

 

[Bob4x4]

Yup I have had to deal with this..........what a pain

 

[p-Bar]

I hear that the Bosch Remans are very good.

 

[BrianAtSmarty]

I hear that the Bosch Remans are very good.

Bosch remans are the best we've seen, but they are still just that, remans. Please review!

Why should we avoid using remanufactured injectors?



The reason to not use remanufactured injectors is simple, because only failed parts and the nozzle get replaced when the injector gets repaired. All other parts of the injector will remain. So a reman injector has wear already on its internal parts and will never reach the same running time or will it function like a new injector. (that is in the case of using a Bosch reman injector with the number 0986xxxxxx)

.

Bosch remans are the lesser of 2 evils. Please review post #1 describing what most companies do when remanufacturing injectors.



“Evidence shows that most companies attempting to remanufacture CR injectors appear to not have the knowledge to remanufacture injectors properly. They are trying to finish the sealing surfaces between the nozzle and the injector body. These surfaces originally have a concave shape which they wrongly remove. That also effects the nozzle needle lift by the material they remove in the grinding process and they do not adjust it afterwards. Very often the armature lift gets no adjustment or they simply get dirt into the injector…. and so on. The list of issues caused by these remanufacturers is long.”

Thank you!

Brian

 

[p-Bar]

I wouldn't even put Bosch in the same catogory of other rebuild companies . I spoke with Todd from T&C Diesel and he has told me that he has had the same amount of failure rates on both Brand new Bosch and Bosch Remanufactured. This will just turn into a "transmission war"

 

[Regcabguy]

We have a new Bosch rebuild facility here in San Diego. NTG Racing here is using them now. Time will tell how it works out.
I'm assumng if we invested in BBI's we'd want to install much better filtration and water separation.
Joe the owner has a customer with the BBI 1.5's who claims the truck's never ran better.

http://www.expressdiesel.us/

 

[p-Bar]

That is one thing I did 2 micron now but way too late in the game. Will have to check in with NTG

 

[Regcabguy]

That is one thing I did 2 micron now but way too late in the game. Will have to check in with NTG

You'll like them p-bar. Joe and Pablo rock.
Good honest shop.
Might be a deal ender with me having to put injectors in this thing someday. I've got the GDP 2,3,4 whatever setup but it sounds like I need more.
Sounds though with the resale of your existing injectors,the BBI's are competitively priced.

 

[cerberusiam]

Same failure rate on new and remans simply does not sound right. Granted, production run stock injectors are not that great for balance but funtiuon should not be an issue. New has never let me down yet, not impressed at all with the remans as we have to replace 2 in a little over a year and the others are just not that great. Noisy, extremely finicky about tunes and usage. From my experience, the Bosch remans are a get you by until you can buy new ones choice. Some of the rest of the reman companies I would not even put in my engines.

If you invest in the BBI's the cost of extra filters is not even a consideration. By this time everyone should be well aware of the less than ideal cleanliness of out fuel, the inherent capability of ULSD to capture water like bio, and the results of running water or solids over 3 um thru a HPCR system. Extra solids and water filters are a solid bet ANY time.

Great info from the HPCR masters, thanks for posting Brian.

 

[MarkEkberg]

I am over 200K and figure I will need injectors in the next year or so. I have not begun to research yet, but I read all sorts of stuff about injectors for my old truck a OBS stroke.

There was multiple shops that rebuilt injectors to flow more and matched them. Is this not the case with these engines?

I would like to get a little more fuel when wanted, but do not want to sacrifice anything else. Was able to find that through SwampDonkey in TN for previous truck. Looks like remanned is not looking like a viable choice?

 

[cerberusiam]

Reman, no. No one has shown the ability to reman these as close to new and still provide an adequate lifetime. Metal fatigue takes a toll. The 50- 60 HP injectors show some improvement in efficiency over stock and some products provide much better balance and work on key components.

 

[Tuesdak]

What about "design" changes or updates the new injectors would have?

 

[BrianAtSmarty]

Bosch remans, they will certainly get a nozzle with the coating and a new high pressure sealing ring. Does Bosch put a new valve piece into it if the hard chrome coating is missing and it looks good? Not likely! They will definitely not make a change to the puck design.

Hope this helps!
Thank you!

 

[HHhuntitall]

I'd like to add that the reman'd Bosch injectors I've used have had good service. Not fantastic but good. I've seen 100k out of most of them that didn't come out of blown engine. I've lost contact with a lot of them. There have been some questions that maybe the injectors caused the failure on some of the engines, but with programmers, poor maintanence, and driver lack of caring..... Maybe.... But others? Not so much.... I've had a pisspoor failure rate with any other rebuilt injector.

As a side note, I've had DOA injectors new out of the box from Bosch, too. Never a problem to have them replaced, so that tells me it's a known issue....

One company to stay away from is Flight Electronic Systems... Bah! I made the mistake of buying quite a few for replacements over the period of a year and a half, and now I'm done with them, and it's just handling the fallout....

 

[BrianAtSmarty]

DOA from NEW Bosch right out of the box? Could happen! The failure rate for New Bosch CR Injectors is 3 out of a million. Those are pretty good odds for success IMO.

 

[Tuesdak]

Talking with a local diesel shop they indicated NEW "virgin" injectors were hard to get from Bosch. They are a Smarty distributor.

What is the cost difference for 2003's anyway between "virgin" new and reman?

What about new BBI for a stock ECM? Would it pass snap test emissions with the smoke meter? Adding a tuner is an extra cost to me if I have to turn the fuel down. I am happy at stock power.

 

[BrianAtSmarty]

JD, They are indeed hard to get but we have NO issue getting Brand NEW Bosch right from Europe thru our resource. Please PM me if you would like me to arrange that for you!

Thank you!

 

[TCDiesel]

Gen-New (totally recondition By Bosch) and Virgins are identical except in Name only. I have sold Virgins and Gen-New side by side for close to 6 years, Prior to 2009 it was next to impossible for Non-OEM builder/buyer to purchase Virgins, The mortality rate is the same less then 2%. House mans are molested Injectors , Bosch NOW has a FIRM policy on sellers ( 1 and your done) if they catch anyone selling under the wrong policy or Jurisdiction , will face administration action That includes TC Diesel. Anyone can call Me for the details.

 

[K5IP]

Todd,
You mention (GEN-New totally reconditioned from Bosch) Is this a different better) product than the Bosch remanufactured product to which others have referred.
I am also confused between the different failure rate others have suggested. You mention a 2% or less on new (or Gen New).
Another highly respected poster has indicated a failure rate of 3/million or .000003%.
Seems like a huge difference.
I also do not want to start a war, but I will be needing injectors soon. Just trying to get the facts right.
Thanks.

 

[TCDiesel]

Gen-New was a term that was used form 2003..Gen-new means Totally reconditioned BY Bosch... Or Bosch remanufactured,They are the exact same spec as Virgins Or Brand new.

The % is base on sales, But how much of the 2% was caused buy dropping the Injector or dirty install, ETC, its real world, 3/ mill I wonder how many Cummins injectors Bosch makes in a year 2 million.