With 350/800 announced now what??

[CUMMINZ]

For many moons I have read posts of quite a few posters with late model duallys and c/cabs that (I don't want to say argued) they were at their limit in towing with GCVWs at 22-24k what ever they are. I would guess that they were thinking they were limited with their rig to that GCVW because the "factory" suggested those numbers. "OR" was the limitation due to engine towing ability? Or both.



Now that the 350/800 has been introduced to have GCVW of 30,000#s--- What has given it that much more capability? They certainly done nothing that I can see to help the handling (weight wise). More TQ and better Tconverter and better rear axle does nothing for stability.



Any thoughts?

 

[RDHamill]

And nothing is better about the brakes. my guess is that it's a marketing issue, or liability.
Very nice truck just the same

 

[WestTN]

It may be other less obvious things such as frame temper and/or thickness. It also could be that they decided the truck was capable of more than its' previously assigned capacity.

 

[georgej]

It looks like the brake front rotors are 14. 170 inch diameter and the rears are 14. 090. Also a stronger exhaust brake is fitted as well as the rear axle upgrades. There may be other upgrades as well

 

[NIsaacs]

Nothing in the article mentioned GVW. If it is still the same, the brakes and stability should not change any. If it is just the GCW going up, all towed weight not hauled weight, then thats where the brakes come from. Interesting jump in GCW tho.



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

I read nothing about and changes to frame temper, frame thickness, exhaust brake, or front or rear brake rotors in the Ram press announcement.

The only components Ram says will be changed besides the engine software change for the 30k GCWR are power steering cooler, transmission cooler, torque converter, and rear axle assembly.

I towed a privately owned Alfa Gold triple axle fifth wheel trailer that belonged to an elderly couple who were giving up full time living in their trailer in an exclusive desert resort close to Palm Springs, CA to a bedroom community southwest of Kansas City several years ago with my '06 Ram dually. The Alfa was a triple axle and was heavily loaded with all the personal belongings of the elderly couple. The trailer weighed about 19k and my gross combined was close to 30k.

My truck, with 4. 10 gears, a full DTT transmission, a factory exhaust brake, and BrakeSmart controller did a fine job but I simply didn't enjoy towing a load that heavy with a 3500 series dually.

 

[CToney]

The only problem I have with the increased rating is it leaves us guys who prefer a stick left out to dry. I guess when I am ready to upgrade my truck I can increase the power like I did on all my other trucks. I have grossed at ~27,000lbs and my 2500 handled it fine. I don't have a e brake either. But I only had one nasty hill to go up and down. I took my time and used engine braking. I only had to go through one city. It definitely would have been nicer grossing 100,000lbs with my Kenworth but then the wife and kids would have to stay at home.

 

[CUMMINZ]

HB,



I have never towed any heavier than 26-27k. I do know that when I moved from a 29' Sprinter @ maybe 11k to my 36' Cedar Creek @ 15k--I could tell quite a difference. I can't imagine 30k and it being fun. In all reality this jump is DCs biggest jump ever in capacity. They have given us what many have screamed for.

 

[georgej]

Check the writeup in "autoblog" for info on brake size and exhaust brake claims.

 

[HBarlow]

HB,

I have never towed any heavier than 26-27k. I do know that when I moved from a 29' Sprinter @ maybe 11k to my 36' Cedar Creek @ 15k--I could tell quite a difference. I can't imagine 30k and it being fun. In all reality this jump is DCs biggest jump ever in capacity. They have given us what many have screamed for.

Yep, Ram gave us what many have been complaining for and they still won't buy one, now they'll complain about something else.

Some will complain because Ram didn't increase the towing capacity of their Ram 2500 and others will complain because Ram didn't increase the GCWR of their truck with manual six speed. Others with new 2010s or 2011s will complain that Ram should retrofit their new trucks at no charge. It is impossible to please everyone. I've always been very satisfied with the capability of Ram 3500 duallies for anything I wanted to tow.

You described your heavy towing experience exactly as I experienced it. Towing that heavy was simply not fun. Our Rams have always been capable of it in the hands of a driver who understands the limitations of his truck and doesn't abuse it but if I owned and towed a trailer that large and that heavy on a full time or frequent basis I think I'd use an International or Freightliner.

 

[NIsaacs]

Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to increased capability other then competition and popularity. The pickup dually gets a 30,000 lb tow rating while the 4500/5500 stay at 26,000, thats kind of jacked up.



Nick

 

[EGroeneveld]

Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to increased capability other then competition and popularity. The pickup dually gets a 30,000 lb tow rating while the 4500/5500 stay at 26,000, thats kind of jacked up.



Nick

I don't think Ram is done, they might switch things up a soon, including uping the 6 speed manual. Uprated 6 speed manual might be in another 6 months.



Having the high pickup dually rating is great for RV'ers and farmers who can ignore all Commercial DOT requirements in many states.

 

[jgillott]

You described your heavy towing experience exactly as I experienced it. Towing that heavy was simply not fun. Our Rams have always been capable of it in the hands of a driver who understands the limitations of his truck and doesn't abuse it but if I owned and towed a trailer that large and that heavy on a full time or frequent basis I think I'd use an International or Freightliner.

I was thinking this exact thing when I read the announcement, but didn't know how to say it. In the hands of experienced drivers, that weight is fine under most circumstances. It scares me a little to think of the first time or inexperienced towers pulling that kind of weight just because Ford, GM, or Dodge said they could. I've spent the better part of the last 20 years behind the wheel of medium duty Fords and Internationals at 30K+ gross..... with air brakes, 22. 5's, etc. Trust me, even with that equipment, you can have a few uncomfortable moments.

 

[HBarlow]

Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to increased capability other then competition and popularity. The pickup dually gets a 30,000 lb tow rating while the 4500/5500 stay at 26,000, thats kind of jacked up.

Nick

That's true. It is pretty silly to buy a truck with the capability of the 4500/5500s and have GCW technically limited to 26k. If I owned one I wouldn't give a thought to towing 30k gross combined if that was what I needed to do. They have a lot more suspension and brakes than my 3500 does plus they can be ordered with 4. 44 or 4. 88 gears.

I wonder what GCW Aisin says their six speed automatic can handle? Perhaps it is rated at only 26k.

The Ram 4500/5500 trucks use a different rear end assembly than the pickups or 3500 C&C. It looks much bigger and stronger. May it will soon be uprated to handle 30k or more.

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't think Ram is done, they might switch things up a soon, including uping the 6 speed manual. Uprated 6 speed manual might be in another 6 months.



Having the high pickup dually rating is great for RV'ers and farmers who can ignore all Commercial DOT requirements in many states.

Yes I agree that Dodge is not done, they had to start somewhere so they started with popular/non-commercial vehicles first. Knowing the three cab-chassis 3500/4500/5500 trucks get used harder, they will be slow to up rate them without some major re-design in the power train, mostly the clutch and transmission dept. The rest of the trucks platform is already up to way more towing weight.



Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining, just visiting on line with you guys The Dodge/Cummins combo is awesome and just gets better.



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

I was thinking this exact thing when I read the announcement, but didn't know how to say it. In the hands of experienced drivers, that weight is fine under most circumstances. It scares me a little to think of the first time or inexperienced towers pulling that kind of weight just because Ford, GM, or Dodge said they could. I've spent the better part of the last 20 years behind the wheel of medium duty Fords and Internationals at 30K+ gross..... with air brakes, 22. 5's, etc. Trust me, even with that equipment, you can have a few uncomfortable moments.

I'm sure that's true. That's probably why some states like my own state of Texas are now requiring a non-commercial class A license for gross combined weights over 26k for RVs and other private towing. It's not much but it does require some additional testing and an actual driving test.

We've all seen drivers driving motorhomes or towing large trailers that shouldn't be driving anything bigger or more powerful than a Prius.

 

[AEdelheit]

I would think the 26k rating on the 45/5500's has to do with that being the cut off for a class C license, If the truck is rated higher I believe you would need a class A or B depending if you are towing to drive it. Although that does not explain why the 3500's have a higher rating. Only other thought is they figure a 45/5500 will be at its rated capacity majority of its life while a 3500 will only see an occasional load that heavy. Dont know any facts just thoughts.

 

[CUMMINZ]

I would think the 26k rating on the 45/5500's has to do with that being the cut off for a class C license, If the truck is rated higher I believe you would need a class A or B depending if you are towing to drive it. Although that does not explain why the 3500's have a higher rating. Only other thought is they figure a 45/5500 will be at its rated capacity majority of its life while a 3500 will only see an occasional load that heavy. Dont know any facts just thoughts.

I think we need to give DC a chance to re-advertise all their line of trucks. 3500 duallys are probably their highest seller of tow vehicles. It will come.

 

[HBarlow]

I would think the 26k rating on the 45/5500's has to do with that being the cut off for a class C license, If the truck is rated higher I believe you would need a class A or B depending if you are towing to drive it. Although that does not explain why the 3500's have a higher rating. Only other thought is they figure a 45/5500 will be at its rated capacity majority of its life while a 3500 will only see an occasional load that heavy. Dont know any facts just thoughts.

No, the manufacturer's tow limits are about mechanical limits and warranty considerations, They have no relevance to DOT gross combined weight limits for those without a CDL class A.

DOT gross combined weights are based on the total of GVWR of tow vehicle and GVWR of towed vehicle or actual scale weight for non-CDL drivers.

Ram 4500s have a GVWR of 16,500. That means if the truck is being used in any commercial activity the non-CDL driver can't legally tow a trailer that weighs more than 9,500 lbs. Ram 5500s have a GVWR of 19,500 so a non-CDL driver can only tow a trailer weighing 5,500 lbs. DOT rules apply to any truck used in commercial activity towing a trailer weighing in excess of 10,000 lbs. so technically, I guess a non-CDL driver in a Ram 4500 could tow a trailer weighing 10,000 lbs. Even though GCW is exceeded, the trailer threshold weight is not. That one might confuse some DOT officers and result in a ticket anyway for a judge to sort out.

If Ram offered a truck with a GVWR of 26,001 lbs. the driver would be required to hold a CDL Class A license if engaged in commercial activity.

 

[CToney]

Up here in Canada anyone other than a farmer (I am sure RV's could get by too as they don't have to cross scales) needs a class 1 licence to tow a trailer over 10,000lbs if involved in commercial activity. Here in Saskatchewan they are not overly strict on smaller GVW vehicles. It is when you get larger over 22,000lbs GVW that you have to cross scales. In BC i believe they are very strict. You can't plead dumb farmer out there. The grades there make it necessary to have stricter enforcement.