Won't crank, well it will eventually

[rrnut-2]

I have been having an issue with the engine not cranking. If I try to start the truck, push button is pressed to on, foot on the brake, and it may or may not crank. Sometimes it will take 3-7 tries. What I have to do is try to start the truck, no crank, turn off the truck and repeat this routine until the engine cranks and once it does, the engine will start right up. Every once in a while, the Evic will come up with Service Antilock Brakes message. Not sure if that is connected, shouldn't effect starting?

I put in new batteries as the first attempt to fix this as the old batteries were 10 years old, no change. Next step, I took it to the dealer and their answer was to put in an $1100 starter. That didn't fix it. This past Saturday night, the alarm went off for no reason, not a big deal, but Monday it went off on the dealer just sitting in the lot.

Unfortunately, I do not have schematics yet, and couldn't find them on Tech Connect. It's back at the dealer since Monday and they haven't got a clue yet.

Any ideas?

 

[Topzide]

@rrnut-2, Which part of the schematics are you needing? Have the service and wiring manuals for 2014's.

 

[JLandry]

Could this simply be an intermittent (failing) brake light switch (activated by the brake pedal)?

We know the engine won’t crank without the brake pedal being pressed. How does the system know the brake pedal is pressed? Most likely the brake light switch. Also, what if the brake system senses a buildup of brake fluid pressure but without the brake light switch being activated? Could that be what's triggering the “Service Antilock Brake” warning?

John L.

 

[Ozymandias]

Does remote start work?

 

[rrnut-2]

"@rrnut-2, Which part of the schematics are you needing? Have the service and wiring manuals for 2014's."

I am looking for the starting circuit. I don't have a lot of faith in my dealer finding the problem.

"Does remote start work?"

Remote start goes through the motions, but doesn't crank.

Jim B

 

[rrnut-2]

JLandry, I wouldn't think the "Service Brake" message would stop it from cranking, but who knows on these trucks with all of the electronics.

I got a call from the dealer claiming that it is fixed. They say it was the transmission range sensor that stopped it from cranking. And the hood latch safety switch was the reason for the alarm.
I will let everybody know what happens next. We have a long trip planned, and don't this crap to happen on the road.

Jim B

 

[Topzide]

@rrnut-2, When you get it back, hope they found the issue! If it still gives you issues, I'll shoot you the diagrams and the service procedures for the starting circuit. Might be a couple days if this coastal storm rears it's head! Calling for lot's rain and gusty winds! that usually means power going out and no internet! Already under Tropical Storm Warning!!!!

 

[Ozymandias]

Good that the problem is solved. Lots of things involved today to have the starter running....

 

[rrnut-2]

Well, it isn't solved yet! The dealer didn't order the part, so I don't have the truck. So we will see. To make matters worse, I just went onto Rock Auto to see what their price is for a starter, $230 for the most expensive one. Big difference from what the dealer charged me, the dealer was $1115 just for the starter.

Jim B

 

[Topzide]

And you'd been better off finding a local re-builder for starters and alternators! Dealer pricing on starters and alternators are way above reasonable! When you get truck back, offer still stands on info if needed.

 

[Ozymandias]

These starters very rarely fail, they are incredibly reliable.
Mine still runs on the factory installed Mitsubishi starter.
And even if it would be 1200$ I think I would buy it, knowing that it will last out the truck then. A failed starter is a real road block.

 

[rrnut-2]

Well, I paid for the replacement range sensor switch, went to leave with the truck and no crank. At this point, I gave them the key back and told them to troubleshoot it, don't just replace parts willy nilly.

I agree that the original starter would probably out last me and the replacement was totally unnecessary.

I have a local rebuilder for starters and alternators and that's where I take my forklift & tractor starters when they need repair.

Topzide, I'll take you up on the schematics. I think that I will be doing the troubleshooting in the end. If they don't fix it this time, I will tow it out of there.

I just check my email and low and behold there is a survey of how they did on the repairs to my truck!

Jim B

 

[cerberusiam]

As a guess based on my experiences, the WIN module is going bad and losing com with PEM module. Next time it happens pop the opush start button out and use the Fobik to try to start it. If that works then ou have some modules going TU, if still have issue on to diagnosing but likely it is the WIN module that is bad.

 

[sag2]

If remote start does not operate, they should attempts to remote start it and if it doesn't work they can look at the inhibit monitor for the reason it didn't start. It could still be another problem, but this would eliminate a bunch of stuff to guess at.

 

[Topzide]

@rrnut-2, Will start getting them together for you and then will PM them to you. I sure hope that you'll only need to put them in a file and not have to do the work yourself! But if they fail and you need to remove from there, they'll be helpful to you or the shop of your choosing. Glad to be able to assist in the matter.

 

[Topzide]

@rrnut-2, Just looking at service manual to look for start repair listing and came across vehicle alarm. Wondering if this may be playing a factor in this issue. Might be worth looking into. Will look at brakes section for any mention of causing a no start. Will read into alarm, brakes and push start to see if anything sticks out and will forward as needed. Hang in there, we'll get it figured out if the shop can't!

 

[rrnut-2]

I haven't heard anything yet. If they don't fix it this time, it's coming home and I will fix it. Living here in New Hampshire and the truck is 10 years old, I am willing to bet that it is a bad ground, or corroded wire. What is problematic for me is, my garage is the great outdoors and no lift.

Topzide, how did you make out with the hurricane?

Jim B

 

[Topzide]

I feel your pain about working in the great outdoors! A pop-up, tarps and fan or heater depending on the season! I'll agree about a ground or corrosion in a connector. Have they said if the remote start will work or it's both? With the alarm, hood latch switch could be knocked or worn and isn't completing the circuit sometimes. You may want to pick up a Power Probe to help with the wiring. I got one and it's great since it'll reach bumper to bumper!
Made out pretty unscathed! had a lot of rain and wind only up to about 45mph. Far cry from what it looked like we would be dealt! Still watching for any other development that may impact us. Have been hit pretty good in October before! Generator is ready every season for Jun 1st! We've been without for 7 - 10 days in the past. That's living on the east cost for ya!

 

[rrnut-2]

I have three DMM's but no power probe. The remote start goes through the sequence, but no crank. After about 3 mins or so, it will come up with a message that the engine failed to start. That was helpful!
I have just received the AlphOBD and when I get the truck back, I will also use that to see if it comes up with anything.

I will say, that I would rather put up with snow than hurricanes and tornadoes.

Jim B

 

[Ozymandias]

Without Alfa you are lost on a modern days Ram truck. No way to diagnose it properly.