wont start under 10 deg F dealer sucks

[BMeier]

I have a buddy with a '03 250 hp cummins bone stock with 85,000 miles, when it is below 10 deg F the truck will not start all of a sudden unless it is plugged in. It cranks over plenty fast to start. I plugged in my code reader and found a crank shaft sensor fault. He took to dealer, they put a new sensor in and $100 later gave him the truck back. The next day it was 2 deg and would not start. I opened water drain and turned key on, there was fuel pooring out like crazy, I figured the pump is good. He took to dealer they told him the pressure was too low, 5 psi with new filter. They installed new transfer pump in fuel tank, $100 later gave truck back. The next day it was

-12 deg, wont start. plugged truck in and took to dealer let sit over night so the tech could try starting it the next day. Truck would not start, they said the rail pressure was too low during cranking, installed new rail pres relief valve, $100 later gave truck back. the next day it was -18 deg no start. Back to the dealer very upset. I went in with him and told the dealer to make sure the CP3 pressures are good and the fuel control solenoid is good, they can not figure it out. Any suggestions, sorry for the long post!

 

[JDiepstra]

I wonder at what point you can start to be reimbursed for work done that did not solve the problem.

 

[BMeier]

Sometimes I am tempted to buy the DRB III just so I can do all my own work, just haven't come up with $5000 yet. I am so tired of automotive dealers anymore.

 

[wcjp]

Are the grid heaters working properly?

 

[DonFitzwater]

I'm with WCJP, start easy and check the grid heater. It's amazing how some dealers just throw parts and other peoples money at things.

 

[BMeier]

The heater does work, I have 14 volts to it, and I can feel the heater getting warm. He has started his truck when it was 0 deg without letting the grid heater cycle, just out of curiousity, it started just fine. Just recently this problem started, we just went through a few weeks of temps that stayed under -25 deg, and he's never had a problem until now. I dont think it is a temp issue.

 

[BMeier]

Truck starts again

We have finally fixed my buddies truck, he took it back to the dealer after they had installed a new transfer pump, rail pressure relief valve, and now they decided it needed all 6 injectors. They put the injectors in the pickup, and did not charge another $100 deductible, the next day the truck did not start when it was -19 deg. Finally I told him lets just replace the fuel control actuator. I ordered the FCA for $109 and installed it, the truck has been starting ever since runs smooth and does not smoke anymore, and the temps have been consitantly below zero. We went to the dealer and told him that the FCA fixed it, lets just say I wish I had a camera to take a picture of the service managers face after he realized my buddy got free injectors. We both called Chrystler and filled out a survey about the dealer and layed it all out.

 

[obert]

I'm with WCJP, start easy and check the grid heater. It's amazing how some dealers just throw parts and other peoples money at things.

Diagnostic skills are becoming a thing of the past, and its pretty sad. Alot of guys my age need a computer or scan tool to tell them which part to replace. I fully embrace electronic diagnostics, but I was brought up old skool and remember that a "code" is merely what the controller *thinks* is wrong.



In this case it sounds like the tech just unfafiliar with the truck and threw parts at it in desperation. The real problem here is why in the world did the dealer not keep the truck over night to replicate the problem and make shure it was fixed in the first place?? Fixing "a problem" does NOT mean you havefixed "the" problem.

 

[DPKetchum]

Thats the reason certain parts are on RESTRICTION! Thats the reason STAR(engineering,tech helpline) is a pain in the rear! Prime example.

 

[obert]

What?!

So you have to get special permission to get certain parts? I can understand why they would do that, but geeze, it's messed up that they would have to.

 

[DPKetchum]

All manufactures have basicly same way of doing things. All have certain parts that "PARTS" cannot get. Engineering has to realease them after tech shows certain steps have been used in the diagnois.

 

[Bob4x4]

One thing everyone has been overlooking is the warranty policy itself. Dodge is very hard to get diagnostic time out of. They have canceled all the electrical diag labor ops. In most cases the tech gets paid for replacing the part only,no diag time. The FCA pays . 3 or 18 minutes... ... ..... yes it can be done in that 18 minutes but what about testing? The Dodge policy promotes throwing parts at it. Untill Dodge is more willing to pay for diagnostics on warranty the consumer will be stuck with those types of issues. Instead of beating up on the dealers hit up the corporation for improving the way things are paid for. I have seen a huge loss of skilled techs over the years,many are too fed up dealing with the system and would rather go work in a less stressful environment where they actually get paid to show up in the morning. Untill Dodge steps up and repairs what is broken most consumers will continue to see the situation get worse.



Bob

 

[KWilkinson]

One thing everyone has been overlooking is the warranty policy itself. Dodge is very hard to get diagnostic time out of. They have canceled all the electrical diag labor ops. In most cases the tech gets paid for replacing the part only,no diag time. The FCA pays . 3 or 18 minutes... ... ..... yes it can be done in that 18 minutes but what about testing? The Dodge policy promotes throwing parts at it. Untill Dodge is more willing to pay for diagnostics on warranty the consumer will be stuck with those types of issues. Instead of beating up on the dealers hit up the corporation for improving the way things are paid for. I have seen a huge loss of skilled techs over the years,many are too fed up dealing with the system and would rather go work in a less stressful environment where they actually get paid to show up in the morning. Untill Dodge steps up and repairs what is broken most consumers will continue to see the situation get worse.



Bob

This is exactly why I dont work for a dealer anymore... or turn wrenches at all for that matter. #@$%!

 

[pwr2tow]

One thing everyone has been overlooking is the warranty policy itself. Dodge is very hard to get diagnostic time out of. They have canceled all the electrical diag labor ops. In most cases the tech gets paid for replacing the part only,no diag time. The FCA pays . 3 or 18 minutes... ... ..... yes it can be done in that 18 minutes but what about testing? The Dodge policy promotes throwing parts at it. Untill Dodge is more willing to pay for diagnostics on warranty the consumer will be stuck with those types of issues. Instead of beating up on the dealers hit up the corporation for improving the way things are paid for. I have seen a huge loss of skilled techs over the years,many are too fed up dealing with the system and would rather go work in a less stressful environment where they actually get paid to show up in the morning. Untill Dodge steps up and repairs what is broken most consumers will continue to see the situation get worse.

Bob

Yup, we need to start calling Chrysler and ***** about the way Chrysler is handling things and then dumping it on the dealerships.

Was just down to see my good friend at the dealership, he said it's his last day. The way Chrysler treats the dealerships and mechanics as a by product of their decisions he's just fed up with it all. Making a wage at the dealership and commision on top of that doesn't pay when Chrysler will not pay for diagnostic under warranty. He's going to go work for a private shop for more money.

 

[jelag]

what happened to the other thread about this truck.....

 

[obert]

Thanks, Bob, that explains things. I work for a construction equipment dealer, warranty is a whole lot different off the road. For our flagship brand, war. flat rates are pretty fair, not too hard to meet or beat, plus with a good dealership review we get something like 120% of our regular labor cost. That helps take care of diagnostic time, cleanup, etc. Plus we work hourly, a huge benifit to the tech, particularly in slow times.



In special circumstances, the service manager can work with the factory service rep and get some extra coin for extended diagnostics, especially if tech was in cotact with the factory. We have a new "call track" program, consiting mostly of an e-form with machine details, and e-mail for conversation. I liked the days of personaly talking on the phone to the troubleshooter at the factory, but e-mail gets answered alot faster, and now evry thing is documented.

The chrysler deal confuses me. It would be far better for a manufacturer to pay a couple hundred $$ extra labor to find that corroded wire than to blow thousands on controllers and sensors, and still not fix the problem. Do they pay extra daig. time on those "restricted" parts?



A little long, I'll shut up now. :-{}

 

[Bob4x4]

Thanks, Bob, that explains things. I work for a construction equipment dealer, warranty is a whole lot different off the road. For our flagship brand, war. flat rates are pretty fair, not too hard to meet or beat, plus with a good dealership review we get something like 120% of our regular labor cost. That helps take care of diagnostic time, cleanup, etc. Plus we work hourly, a huge benifit to the tech, particularly in slow times.



In special circumstances, the service manager can work with the factory service rep and get some extra coin for extended diagnostics, especially if tech was in cotact with the factory. We have a new "call track" program, consiting mostly of an e-form with machine details, and e-mail for conversation. I liked the days of personaly talking on the phone to the troubleshooter at the factory, but e-mail gets answered alot faster, and now evry thing is documented.

The chrysler deal confuses me. It would be far better for a manufacturer to pay a couple hundred $$ extra labor to find that corroded wire than to blow thousands on controllers and sensors, and still not fix the problem. Do they pay extra daig. time on those "restricted" parts?



A little long, I'll shut up now. :-{}

Sounds like your system is a fair one. The techs do not even get compensated for the time they are on the phone with star,then to top it all off star will call back after the tech gets it figured out and want to know what finally fixed it.



Bob

 

[sag2]

One thing everyone has been overlooking is the warranty policy itself. Dodge is very hard to get diagnostic time out of. They have canceled all the electrical diag labor ops. In most cases the tech gets paid for replacing the part only,no diag time. The FCA pays . 3 or 18 minutes... ... ..... yes it can be done in that 18 minutes but what about testing? The Dodge policy promotes throwing parts at it. Untill Dodge is more willing to pay for diagnostics on warranty the consumer will be stuck with those types of issues. Instead of beating up on the dealers hit up the corporation for improving the way things are paid for. I have seen a huge loss of skilled techs over the years,many are too fed up dealing with the system and would rather go work in a less stressful environment where they actually get paid to show up in the morning. Untill Dodge steps up and repairs what is broken most consumers will continue to see the situation get worse.



Bob

Bob, 11-02-07 and 11-03-07 are both actual time. And regardless of what most say, diagnostic time has always been available for diagnostic time that is ABOVE and BEYOND the normal diagnostics required. It is technicians lack of documentation, service managers that are afraid of audits, and DM's that get a little too reserved that keeps the "00" and diagnostic to a minimum. If you read the dealer policy manual, Chrysler has never suspended diagnostic time. It takes everyone working together to make things fair for all.

 

[DPKetchum]

Its been 6 years since I've been out of a dealer but only ONCE did I come across a dealer I worked at that diagnois,00 time and other LITTLE items were not paid. It was NOT the factory but a lazy in the reps pocket Service Manager. No telling how much money he FAILED to take in for the OWNER,Techs,Service Writers and his own stupid self! I stayed 90 days and brought this up to him MANY times to no avail. The last week I was there had a Techs WIFE ask me about such. I tuned her up. Like to have been a fly on the wall after my last day there. This was NOT at a Chrysler dealer(G. M. )

 

[LarryG]

One thing everyone has been overlooking is the warranty policy itself. Dodge is very hard to get diagnostic time out of. They have canceled all the electrical diag labor ops. In most cases the tech gets paid for replacing the part only,no diag time. The FCA pays . 3 or 18 minutes... ... ..... yes it can be done in that 18 minutes but what about testing? The Dodge policy promotes throwing parts at it. Untill Dodge is more willing to pay for diagnostics on warranty the consumer will be stuck with those types of issues. Instead of beating up on the dealers hit up the corporation for improving the way things are paid for. I have seen a huge loss of skilled techs over the years,many are too fed up dealing with the system and would rather go work in a less stressful environment where they actually get paid to show up in the morning. Untill Dodge steps up and repairs what is broken most consumers will continue to see the situation get worse.



Bob

The last dealer that worked on my truck charged $99. 00 for diagnostics, refundable if the work was done there. They replaced the VP44 (first replacement) and transfer pump (third replacement) and went out of business 3 weeks later.