Your thoughts on how to deal with dealer on probably rear end problem

[Jeepr]

Okay, my truck is a 2005 with just over 60,000 miles. I have a Kore Recon lift with 35's.



A few months ago, I took my truck to a local shop to get the rear pinion seal replaced because it was leaking. The guy there said there was excessive play in the rear pinion and just replacing the seal obviously wouldn't help as it will just start leaking again. He indicated they would have to tear into the rear end and depending on what they found I could be looking at $1600+. Well, mine is a 2005 with the 7/70 warranty, so I called a dealer who said it would be covered and made an appointment to take it in.



Well, after taking it to the dealer (and it getting hailed on and damaged while there!... but I digress. . ), they said the rear end was "within spec" and replaced the seal under the warranty charging me the $100 deductible.



Well, as the original shop predicted, the leak is back already.



This whole "within spec" thing really makes me mad, as I had the same thing with the ball joints, two dealers said they were "within spec" (didn't deny they were loose) and wouldn't cover them under warranty, yet two independant shops said they wouldn't even pass safety inspection. So, I just changed them to Dynatrac's to be done with it. I've heard my Jeep friends hear the same thing about ball joints "within spec". I seriously think this is just Chrysler's way of getting these things out of warranty.



I'm not hearing any unusual gear noise or anything (although, I have 35" Toyo M/T's, so they could mask it). I don't race or beat on it, but it does tow a camper and also my Jeep around, but that's what they are made for, right??



So, I have several options each with pros and cons:



1) Go back to that dealer and push for a resolution. But, I'm concerned if I raise too much of a fuss with them, they will then start saying it's the lift and/or 35's (even though the back isn't really lifted).



2) Call Chrysler, since this "within spec" is clearly their policy. But, I think all that will do is lodge a compliant against that dealer and it's possible they are just following Chrysler's policy.



3) The guy at the shop I originally took it to has a friend at another dealer, but it's about an 45 min from me. But, I could take it there and have his friend hopefully give an honest assessment. I'm not sure what would come of the $100 deductible I already paid, but that's fairly minor in the big picture.



4) There is a mechanic I trust that works at yet another dealer, but that one is about 90 minutes from me. If it requires multiple trips, that could get really problemmatic getting there and back.



Your thoughts on how to proceed? Anyone else have rear pinion seal/bearing problems? Assuming I have some degree of serious problem in the rear end, I obviously want to get this resolved before my 7/70 ends in less than 10,000 miles.

 

[Wingate]

Haven't really heard of alot of AAM failures, but everything fails from time to time. .

My experience with dealerships has been poor... Whether it be Ford, GM, or Dodge... typically they are incompetent, arrogant, and all to willing to deny warranty... .

That experience his solely my own, yours may vary...

With all that said, I would venture to say that if you push the issue with the dealership, they will charge you $100 every time you bring it in, then eventually blame it on the suspension mods, shift enhancer, or the Bully Dog... anything to futher lighten your wallet.

If it were mine, I would either reapair it myself, of find an independent shop that has a good reputation...

 

[rscurtis]

There is no such thing as pinion play that is "within specs. " The bearings are preloaded tight beyond any free play. If you didn't have the noisy tires, you could probably hear a whine on deceleration. What you could try is tightening the pinion nut (a new one) until you have about 30 inch pounds of drag on the assembly with the axles pulled. That may also correct your leak without replacing the seal again.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Pinion seals will leak if the fluid is overfull. Go by what the owners manual says for how high to fill it. My guess is your leak problem will disappear.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[steved]

Pinion seals will leak if the fluid is overfull. Go by what the owners manual says for how high to fill it. My guess is your leak problem will disappear.



Godspeed,

Trent

This is a myth... the seal runs completely flooded when driving down the road, even at "normal" fill. Make sure both the seal AND pinion flange are in good shape... I had the latter of the two and it took. three seals for the garage to diagnose it correctly.



I'm still trying to figure out if its pinion play or backlash that is out of spec???

 

[HBarlow]

A lift kit and huge tires does place additional stresses on the differentials which could contribute to a leaking pinion seal.

Trying to force a dealer or Dodge to repair is extremely unlikely to achieve the results you are looking for.

It's a highly modified truck. Forget about the warranty it once had.

 

[rscurtis]

You're correct, the truck is highly modified, possibly to the detriment of the pinion bearings. But that doesn't exonerate the dealer from giving an improper diagnosis. For steved's question, backlash is easily adjustable and would not cause a seal leak.

 

[HBarlow]

If the warranty is null and void, which we agree on, why would the dealer have any obligation to perform any diagnosis or repair?

Wear and tear is not covered under warranty and at 60,000+ miles any question of faulty parts or installation is long behind him.

My guess is the dealer gave the OP a goodwill gesture by replacing the pinion seal.

A warranty does not provide lifetime protection from parts wearing out, particularly those parts subjected to additional wear due to owner modifications.

 

[steved]

You're correct, the truck is highly modified, possibly to the detriment of the pinion bearings. But that doesn't exonerate the dealer from giving an improper diagnosis. For steved's question, backlash is easily adjustable and would not cause a seal leak.

If you have enough play in the pinion to cause a seal leak, you've got worse problems. . and you would know you had a loose pinion, and not be relying on someone's diagnosis.

 

[JFought]

i got dodge to put in a new axle.
they tried to say that i overloaded a mega cab one ton (at something like $2200)!
i told them to shove it and demand the are dodge rep. a few hrs latter, "its approved under warranty. "

spun the bearing and had a flat spots on the top and bottom of the axle tube.
i had a ticking noise on curves and swore it was frt u joints...

 

[Jeepr]

"highly modified"??



The Kore lift replaced the rear overload spring, with another, lifting it maybe 1/2" in the rear.



And, the truck is a 2005, which means I have the 7/70 powertrain warranty. They weren't doing it from "good will", the rear axle is part of the "powertrain".

 

[S.Morris]

Like R>S. Curtis says... ... ... There should be NO pinion bearing play. If you have lost the preload there is an underlying problem and this is only the beginning signs of something wrong.

If the nut has not backed off(almost never happens) and seal surface on yoke is good and diff vent is not blocked , then if pinion bearings have play(measure with a dial guage for in/out play on end of pinion) Best to open it up and inspect/replace bearings while it is just bearings.

Find a shop that specializes in diff repair with a good reputation. Too many dealership mechanics don't get it right... ..... a few do, but not the majority IMO.

 

[ENafziger]

"highly modified"??

Don't take offense to that or get upset... you have to understand it was Harvey that said it!

The story is always the same... someone posts a problem and asks a question about warranty. Then Harvey scrutinizes their signature, past posts, pictures in their high school yearbook, etc to see if they've changed their exhaust tip or added seat covers, or done anything else preposterous... at which point, he lets it be known that these "highly modified" truck should NOT be covered under warranty, and that people who think they have a right to things like that are the downfall of civilized society, and are heaping burdens upon all the decent Dodge-driving people who would never even consider doing something like that! Then, the original poster (usually) gets slightly offended, and the appropriate band of supporters all jump in depending on the issue at hand (the Carli crowd if it's suspension, the Smarty crowd if it's power adders, etc, etc, etc). Then everyone is slightly ruffled, and the original question may or may not have been answered. Harvey doesn't mean anything bad by it (I don't think ) He's from the old school, and every now and then actually does have some very good points (hopefully he won't read this and be too flattered) that we would all do well to take heed.

However, pertaining to your situation... yes you've modified your truck, though it's not heavily modified at all. From your original post, you've never abused your truck in the least. Chrysler is (like most) watching itself financially, and isn't looking for opportunities to spend money on customers' trucks; thus, no pinion fix. The tires you have are ~ 11% greater diameter than stock. It is a little stretch to say that caused your problem... it may have caused the pinion seal/bushing to wear faster... but what if you'd pulled a large 5th wheel (within the OEM GVWR) for 60,000 miles? I definately think that would've put more than an 11% inscrease in stress on things as well... and you would've been perfectly justified to do so under OEM guidelines, and perfectly entitled to warranty provision of having the problem fixed.

The real problem is that Chrysler says there's not a problem... and that's a problem! You'll have to factor in driving time, fuel costs, rental costs, etc to see if it would merit driving 90 minutes to have a mechanic you trust look at it. My guess is, once you factor in the hassle, plus likely another $100 deductible at best, you're not going to be ahead. It may be worth to you to fight it on the matter of principle, but to me, there's much more important things in life to take a stand for.

I'd recommend following the advice above, in tightening the pinion nut, and seeing what happens. If the leak/problem persists or gets worse, I'd find another local mechanic. The $1600+ quoted to you sounds too steep for my tastes for a day's labor and a couble bills in parts.

Not all people are able to for one reason or another, but I've personally found the greatest benefit in reasearching something to the point that I felt confident doing the work myself. Often, it's not nearly as hard as presumed, although everyone's level of mechanical ability differs.

Well, I've probably said much more than I should've... . nonetheless, don't let Harvey get to you... he's a pretty decent fellow. You'll make the right decision.

--Eric

 

[HBarlow]

No one here has to like my opinion but regardless of the speeches made, snide remarks tossed about, or angry criticism of me the result will be the same.

The truck has been modified and the dealer has declined further repairs.

What is it that is so hard to understand about this fundamental truth? Modifications usually mean you become your own warranty station.

Yep, I'm old school. I became and adult in a time when we accepted personal responsibility.

 

[AEdelheit]

I actually doubt the "extreme modifications" had anything to do with it being denied. I know at my dealer they didint care if that I had 37's, 2. 5" SAW shocks, bumps, straps and what not, if there was drive train problem it was still covered. Id be willing to bet if you brought a stock truck in they would have said the same thing. Apparently there pinion spec is the same as there ball joint spec.

 

[AH64ID]

It's possible that the dealership just botched the install of the seal. Our local dealerships are both famous for it, the tech's seem to ignore the service manual.



Here are the notes on the pinion bearings.

Pinion bearings have a constant-pitch noise. This noise changes only with vehicle speed. Pinion bearing noise will

be higher pitched because it rotates at a faster rate. Drive the vehicle and load the differential. If bearing noise

occurs, the rear pinion bearing is the source of the noise. If the bearing noise is heard during a coast, the front

pinion bearing is the source.

Install new pinion seal with Installer 8896 (2) and

Handle C-4171 (1).

9. Rotate pinion several times to seat bearings.

10. Apply a light coat of teflon sealant to the pinion

flange splines.

11. Hold pinion and lightly tap the pinion flange (2)

onto the pinion, until a few threads are showing.

12. Install pinion flange washer and new pinion nut.

13. Hold pinion flange (2) with Flange Wrench 8979

(1) and tighten pinion nut until pinion end play is

taken up.

3 - 344 REAR AXLE - 11 1/2 AA DR/DH

14. Measure pinion rotating torque (1) with an inch

pound torque wrench (2). Tighten pinion nut in

small increments until pinion rotating torque is:

² New Pinion Bearings: 1. 7-2. 8 N·m (15-25 in.

lbs. )

² Original Pinion Bearings: 1. 1-2. 2 N·m (10-20

in. lbs. )

15. Rotate pinion several times then verify pinion

rotating torque again.

Parts replaced under warranty generally carry a 12mo/12,000 mile warranty on top of any remaining 7/70. This means you shouldn't have to pay the deductible again.



If they tell you it's within specs again be sure to ask what spec's they are referring to.

the dealer has declined further repairs.

Care to show us where the dealer declined further repairs?

 

[ENafziger]

but regardless of the speeches made, snide remarks tossed about, or angry criticism of me the result will be the same

Hope this wasn't directed at me... I by no means meant anything snide or angry. I actually tried to compliment you, or so I thought! Keep up the good work... this place wouldn't be the same without you!

 

[HBarlow]

Eric,

No, just a general comment.

The ugly often appears when I post something that goes against the popular beliefs.

 

[WMoroni]

I just want to know why every body thinks the AAM are good. Ive had 8 different 2500 and 3500 4x4 cummins since 03. Out of my 8 exactly half (4) have had to have rear ends rebuilt within 36,000 miles. My current 2011 started whining at 472 miles, now at 2212 it howls. Yes I followed the book on break in. And it seems like everytime I go to my dealer there is a different truck on the rack getting pinon seals.

 

[AEdelheit]

I just want to know why every body thinks the AAM are good. Ive had 8 different 2500 and 3500 4x4 cummins since 03. Out of my 8 exactly half (4) have had to have rear ends rebuilt within 36,000 miles. My current 2011 started whining at 472 miles, now at 2212 it howls. Yes I followed the book on break in. And it seems like everytime I go to my dealer there is a different truck on the rack getting pinon seals.

Wow, no good! I also know the front AAM axles are prone to bending with off road use