Amsoil advertising, when does it cross the line?

[brods]

2. Conduct. The TDR encourages lively and informative discussion among Discussion Forum participants. But keep it clean and productive. Do not use or allow others to use your subscription to:

2. 3. Post any form of solicitation on any Discussion Forum

2. 10 Occasional recommendations of vendors by users is encouraged. However excessive promotion of vendors (cheerleading) on the forums is discouraged and may be subject to removal.

As others have noticed, there seems to be an increasing frequency of Amsoil soliciting in the forums. Just recently an Amsoil “dealer” has cut and pasted what looks like the entire Amsoil sales literature pages for certain products into some of his posts.



Confusing the matter, it seems everyone and his brother are Amsoil “dealers” so its hard to tell if a guy is just posting about his good experiences or he is trying to generate sales.



So when has it gone too far?

Can you Amsoil guys take it down a notch or two?

 

[SKargo]

I used to use Amsoil, but don't anymore because of this exact BS.

 

[fest3er]

There hasn't been an oil war thread here in some years. That's a good thing. You'll find extremists for and against synthetic lubes, especially on this site. Anyone who uses a web browser can easily look up Amsoil's web site or any other oil producer's web site, SAE's and API's web sites, and search for information on tribology. I would expect most TDR members are capable of absorbing information and making their own informed decisions.



Posting literature excerpts should be generally acceptable (fair use). Posting literature verbatim may not violate copyright laws if the poster is a dealer who has permission to disseminate literature as part of building her business - informing people about the benefits of a product is not necessarily advertising.



If someone does post literature excerpts or even verbatim, others should be encouraged to post information about a competing product and compare and contrast them. And it will be acceptable all 'round, so long as the discussion stays fairly close to the facts, offers opinions with caution, avoids promoting one's own business/products, and steers well clear of product bashing. Posts should serve to inform, not advertise. When I post about Amsoil products, I include the basic informational data and let people PM me if they are interested.



I have 5 brothers, two sisters and around 45 cousins, and I'm the only Amsoil dealer in the family. Hmmm. I guess that makes me a failure at MLM.



Some dealers may come on a bit strong here, but I think you'll find that most TDR members who are Amsoil dealers are reasonably low key about it.



N

 

[Jaysyl]

A long as Amsoil is a site sponsor, they will be alowed to cross the line

 

[BigYellowIron]

Do like I do, if you see some thing that you dont like or agree with. Dont read it!



Its not that hard. Some people just get to into the readings here. If some people like a product they will speak if they don't like one the tend to speak louder.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Personally, I feel this is one of those "in the eye of the beholder" issues - as long as info presented is based upon personal experience, or provable FACTS, I don't have any problems with oil, performance items, or other similar subjects that have the clear potential to inform me of stuff I might not otherwise be aware of. In fact, that's one reason I'm on this board, and one of it's greatest features.

A long as Amsoil is a site sponsor, they will be alowed to cross the line

I'm perfectly willing to accept the wisdom and ethics of the board controllers in this issue - and I DON'T see the need to deviously infer that they have $inister per$onal motive$ and are "looking the other way" just because the ones under fire represent a board sponsor - any more than they are for Marco, Bob Wagner, Brett or Brady when THEY post informative stuff here related to what they work with and sell.

 

[fest3er]

A long as Amsoil is a site sponsor, they will be alowed to cross the line

That is like saying Edge Products is a site sponsor because Cyclone Diesel advertises Edge's products. Amsoil Inc. is not a sponsor. Advanced Lube Tech is a site sponsor; they are dealers independent of Amsoil Inc.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

don't worry about it, every time I tried to contact an Amsoil distributor on this site, I never got a reply...



oh well, Royal Purple for me!

 

[Jaysyl]

That is like saying Edge Products is a site sponsor because Cyclone Diesel advertises Edge's products. Amsoil Inc. is not a sponsor. Advanced Lube Tech is a site sponsor; they are dealers independent of Amsoil Inc.

So you are saying Cyclone Diesel has a link on there site to set me up as an Edge Dealer? Advance lube sure has a place to click on to become an Amsoil dealer.

 

[brods]

Personally, I feel this is one of those "in the eye of the beholder" issues - as long as info presented in based upon personal experience, or provable FACTS, I don't have any problems with oil, performance, or other similar subjects that have the clear potential to inform me of stuff I might not otherwise be aware of. In fact, that's one reason I'm on this board, and one of it's greatest features.

Fine, why not leave it at that?

And as already pointed out, if some stray issues or individuals trouble the reader, why not do the adult thing, and simply avoid them with a simple key click, rather than assuming the role of self-appointed unofficial board enforcer or punisher? :-{}

Um Gary, are you suggesting my question is an attempt to be an “enforcer or punisher”. Have I suggested a “punishment” or asked for the TDR management to do anything?

Is it not better to air out these concerns in an open manner?



You accuse others of “policing” the forums, you tell them to ignore posts they don’t approve of and yet YOU fail to follow your own advice? If YOU don’t approve of this thread, why didn’t YOU ignore it? I suggest YOU should review the posts of all those that YOU’VE accused of trying to police the forums and then review all YOUR posts accusing them of committing an offense. So, now, who is it that is trying to be the self-appointed unofficial board enforcer?

I'm perfectly willing to accept the wisdom and ethics of the board controllers in this issue...

If this is true, then why did you bother to post in this thread or continue to chastise people in the rest of the forums? Why not just post your opinion on the topic (ie the first paragraph of your post) and leave out the personal attack? Policeman Gary, do me a favor and add me to your ignore list, thank you.



The site rules clearly state “cheerleading” is not allowed. It appears the Amsoil dealers have engaged in cheerleading and, judging from some recent posts in other threads, obviously others do too. So my question to the TDR staff and the other users of this site is the subject line of my post: Have the Amsoil dealers gone too far? Where are the limits?





To all the Amsoil dealers, you may be great guys and just what to educate us, but you are vendors that sell a product. To post about and promote the products you sell and then pretend you have no vested interest in the sales of those products is an insult to our intelligence.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

do me a favor and add me to your ignore list, thank you.

DONE!



You're welcome...

 

[SKargo]

DONE!



You're welcome...

I thought you quit, and were never coming back. :-laf

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Issues of what is appropriate for advertisers/sponsors to post would seemingly follow the same lines as for "regular" members.



I have posted pretty elaborate threads on Frantz oil and fuel filters - as well as for components used in my fuel system - if these are reasonable and appropriate from a rank and file member, do they somehow become devious and self serving if I also am an advertiser/seller of some of the stuff used in my posts? (I'm not!)



I post on my own stuff because it has worked well for me, and I think others might also be interested in similar projects for their own trucks - after all, isn't such sharing of info what boards like this are about? And do the rules and controls suddenly change for those type posts because the one providing that info happens to also be a sponsor?



If that were to become fact, info from guys like Marco and others mentioned earlier would then become off limits, and we'd sure lose lots of valuable info in the process - is that what we really want?



Sure, shameless and obviously pure advertising hype is a different thing completely - but at least in my opinion, that hasn't been the case in what I am reading here - and what I HAVE been reading has been generally helpful and informative, whether I use their stuff or not, and for the most part, I don't!

 

[Dl5treez]

It's a judgement call, and can become a rather WIDE grey area as far as which way it goes.



Best advice is if you see a thread or post that you feel crosses the line, report it. There's a handy link on every post and thread to do so, and it automatically goes to the moderator assigned to that particular forum. He/she will *hopefully* look it over, and if any questions arise you can be sure the discussion will make the moderator forum--we all try to work as a team here.





Thanks for your support, everyone,



Dan-

 

[bighammer]

Dan is exactly right. We're trying our best to keep up with all the new posts and keep them within the forum guidelines. To have a usefull discussion without it becoming a pitch for certain products is a fine line at times. We are just regular members (with some required homework #ad
) trying to make that decision as best as we can. The real intent of the rule is to not have the forum turn into a giant flea market, infomercial, etc.

If you do see something we should have a look at, click the link and report it to us.

Pete

 

[JOdell]

When I became a Amsoil Dealer in July of this year, I PM'ed this site's lead moderator about putting Amsoil Dealer under my name like all the others. I told him I just wanted the Indianapolis TDR members to know that they had a TDR Amsoil Dealer in the city. He informed me that I was required to inform them about representing a company so people could see that I was bias towards one company or another. And also directed me to the sites rules about this subject.

If say I don't care if you use one product or another would be hash and impolite. I can say I will never solicite what I sell to anyone on here or any other board I belong too. If there is a question about Amsoil products and I see it and no other dealer has answered the question I will. IF someone PM's me about wanting something that is where this site relationship ends. I will from that point start corresponding via email and go from there.

I hope I am still doing the right thing, and I encourage Anyone who see me doing something wrong to inform the moderators so I can find out what I did wrong, take my punishment and NEVER do that again.



-Jason

 

[Sled Puller]

I'll tell you when it crosses the line, for both sides.



Back in the early days of this site,(maybe its still happening, I dont read much except Comp, and politics forum anymore. )



Somebody would post a thread about which SYNTHETIC their fellow Cummins owners liked. Most times, some Amsoil dealers would politely answer, maybe some Redline fans etc.



Then, the dino oil guys would pile into the thread, insisting synthetics were no good, and the synthetic users were all lieing, to make money.



I, and several others,took offense to that, and the oil wars started.



If someone had a thread that asked which dino oil you liked, I never posted on them, trying to switch people over.



I never understood the doublestandard.

 

[mike65]

I call them Amsoil Moonys

 

[fest3er]

I call them Amsoil Moonys

You *do* know Amsoil bought Amway, right? :-laf Just kidding!

 

[CraigJohnson]

It's interesting to see how dedicated the amsoil salespeople are. It does remind me a lot of the Amway crowd. I hate it when the screaming starts though. Kinda like a global warming discussion. One side usually starts screaming and then it gets nasty. If a rational discussion cannot take place and reasonable people can not reasonably disagree, then the discussion benefits nobody but reinforce our own beliefs or opinions. I personally have the OPINION that some amsoil products might be of benefit in some cases but for the most part the synthetic revolution has caught up with them. I use synthetic products but not the more expensive amsoil products. I guess I could "save" some money by becoming a dealer, but it's really too much trouble in my already complicated life. I am sure that someone will post a different opinion with some evidence to support their argument, and that is ok. I just hope those arguements and responses don't "crosss the line".



I hope that I have not sounded too negative as this is just my opinion.

cj