Here we go with Oil again...

[jkoplin]

I have been using the Lucas High TBN 15-40 oil for 4 years in two different trucks The oil always feels great when I change it at 5000. It may or may not be better than Rotella or the others. All I know for sure is that it absolutely feels thicker, smoother, and slicker than the others I have tried at the time of the oil change. I got a fs2500 and my oil tests are coming back great at 5000. I don't stress about oil any more. If you just change it at regular intervals you'll be fine. keeping it as clean as you can hurt. so far this FS2500 is paying for itself. Great buy!

 

[steved]

In the latest issue Martin says that he wouldn't cross the street to get a free crankcase of Rotella T CJ-4, but liked the synthetic Rotella CI-4 plus.

I have a 10k UOA of CJ-4 Rotella, it doesn't seem as as bad as everone makes it out to be... I am going to change over to it completely once I run my supply of CI-4plus out... I really like the cold pumpability of CJ-4 Rotella.



I had 10k of winter driving on my CJ-4 (and associated cold starts), and iron was 24ppm...compared to 23ppm average of a 7k mile UOA based on Blackstone's report. Everything else was fairly low and they recommended running it further... TBN was also still good at 6. 7.



I don't buy into the whole idea of CJ-4 oils being that bad.



steved

 

[jnelson]

I just switched to Rotella Synhtetic 5w-40. I'll run 5,000 miles (ran 3,600 this week) and change the filter. then change oil and filter again at 10,000.



good idea?

 

[steved]

I just switched to Rotella Synhtetic 5w-40. I'll run 5,000 miles (ran 3,600 this week) and change the filter. then change oil and filter again at 10,000.



good idea?

Most recommend a shorter initial change to flush the "dirt" the synthetic supposedly washes out... that's what I have read anyhow.



steved

 

[amsoilman]

FYI, AMSOIL is still making the CI-4+ oils in the 5W-30 (HDD) as well as the

15W-40 (AME) and the 10W-30/30 (ACD) grades. The 5W-40 (DEO) grade is a CJ-4/CI-4+/CF for Diesel applications.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[SNoyes]

Personal view,



If you are going to change your oil every 5K, then synthetics are a waste of additional money. Use sythetics for those that you aren't going to change as often, (trans, diffs, etc). If you are going to use synthetics, then put the bypass in and run them 10-15K to get your money out of it... (most of my buddies can run 20K on synthetics without changing, but all get oil samples done to check).

 

[JHardwick]

Personal view,



If you are going to change your oil every 5K, then synthetics are a waste of additional money. Use sythetics for those that you aren't going to change as often, (trans, diffs, etc). If you are going to use synthetics, then put the bypass in and run them 10-15K to get your money out of it... (most of my buddies can run 20K on synthetics without changing, but all get oil samples done to check).

I wouldn't even consider synthetic unless I was going to run 30,000-50,000 miles or more with a bypass.

 

[AKaiser]

You can by-pass filter the oil all you want and it's still not going to get out the fuel leaking past the rings. It will help clean the soot and particulate matter but it's not going to remove the unburned fuel and combustion contaminates that lead to acid formation.

I went something like 50,000 miles or more on my gasser with bypass filters and AMOIL 0W30 Ser 2000, and didn't change the oil prior to that based on oil analysis, and that included a winter period, and you know how much worse gasoline dilution is in the winter.

 

[pwr2tow]

I went something like 50,000 miles or more on my gasser with bypass filters and AMOIL 0W30 Ser 2000, and didn't change the oil prior to that based on oil analysis, and that included a winter period, and you know how much worse gasoline dilution is in the winter.

You more than likely could have done the same with todays regular oil as there isn't much difference between regular oils and synthetics in today's world. Most of the proproganda you hear about the superiority or synthetics is old world news being kept alive by synthetic producers to market their products.

Yah even the oil companies that produce both regular and synthetic have jumped on the band wagon. Why not when todays marketing schemes allow companies to make HUGH profits on how wording in an advetisement is stated.

As for your gas dilution being worse in winter. Unless your running an old carburated engine the fuel dilution in winter is not much more than summer driving. The computer injected vehicles of today run so much more effeciant with all their electronics analysing every event they produce and making adjustment to compensate accordingly.

 

[amsoilman]

Don't kid yourself, PWr2toW! A high quality PAO based synthetic is VERY different!



Wayne

 

[JHardwick]

Don't kid yourself, PWr2toW! A high quality PAO based synthetic is VERY different!



Wayne

you tried to do some numbers, and I proved that your product was a waste of money ... ... ... ... you ignored me twice in the same thread ... ... ..... sharpen your pencil amway guy!

 

[AKaiser]

I'm a believer in Delo 400 every 5,000 miles.

You waste oil even at the Severe service interval (7500 on 05s).

 

[amsoilman]

you tried to do some numbers, and I proved that your product was a waste of money ... ... ... ... you ignored me twice in the same thread ... ... ..... sharpen your pencil amway guy!

Sorry, JHarwick, I don't recall where I ignored you, so please remind me!



Best regards,



Wayne

 

[AKaiser]

You more than likely could have done the same with todays regular oil as there isn't much difference between regular oils and synthetics in today's world. Most of the proproganda you hear about the superiority or synthetics is old world news being kept alive by synthetic producers to market their products.

Doubtful, given the TBN of a typical Premium conventional motor oil, which is almost half of what Amsoil Series 2000 0W30 is. As an example, Valvoline Premium conventional 10W30 runs at a TBN of 7. Ams Series 2000 0W30 runs at 12+ TBN. Amsoil's 10W30 also has a 12+ TBN. TBN is what gets you thru an extended drain period, as long as your filtration is where it needs to be.



The 10W30 Amsoil has superior cold start capabilities as well, and the 0W30 kicks both their butts in that respect. BTW, the 0W30 was tested at -35, which I'm guessing is the standard for that "0W" multigrade. For me, the 0W30 was a no-brainer, as I live a mile from the interstate, and I don't believe in long warmups.



http://www.valvoline.com/products/All-Climate.pdf



https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx



Now, going to Diesels



Compare Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 (not "Extreme") versus Amsoil 15W40 HD Diesel/Marine Oil.



https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ame.aspx



http://www.valvoline.com/products/pbud.pdf



Amsoil TBN 12

VPBLU TBN 10



Blackstone recommends replacing oil at a TBN of 2 unless other factors cause a sooner change.



VPBLUX (Extreme) is a 5W40, and AMS 15W40 is still a better product. http://www.valvoline.com/products/PBX.pdf

 

[magothy1]

I ran Valvoline PBE for 6 thou plus, had a TBN of 9. 8, according to the sample, so we'll keep going. Terry at dysonanalysis.com is great to deal with on sampling, I feel like I'm stealing for the $50 he charges, for all the questions I've asked.

 

[AKaiser]

Blackstone offers a Dyson Analysis package. They do the spectrometry and Terry analyses and gives an in-depth report. I'm going to have one done at some point. I've got 4 Blackstone bottles (I think they goofed, since I only ordered 2. I got one, then the second, then a double two days ago) and I'm going to start out by developing a trend analysis. First, a baseline new oil analysis. Then, at about 5000 miles, run the first UOA, again at 10K, then at 15K. After that, I'll probably go to 7500 mile intervals, just to keep an eye on the engine. For me, that's a quarterly analysis, on average.

 

[CRiggan]

Just changed the oil, I ended up staying with Royal Purple 15w40

thanks for all the input guys !!

 

[pwr2tow]

Don't kid yourself, PWr2toW! A high quality PAO based synthetic is VERY different!

Wayne

Not trying to kid anyone. Nor am I trying to sell anyone anything.

Of course PAO is very different. So is most everything. Your statement is alot more propraganda marketing.

 

[pwr2tow]

Doubtful, given the TBN of a typical Premium conventional motor oil, which is almost half of what Amsoil Series 2000 0W30 is. As an example, Valvoline Premium conventional 10W30 runs at a TBN of 7. Ams Series 2000 0W30 runs at 12+ TBN. Amsoil's 10W30 also has a 12+ TBN. TBN is what gets you thru an extended drain period, as long as your filtration is where it needs to be.

The 10W30 Amsoil has superior cold start capabilities as well, and the 0W30 kicks both their butts in that respect. BTW, the 0W30 was tested at -35, which I'm guessing is the standard for that "0W" multigrade. For me, the 0W30 was a no-brainer, as I live a mile from the interstate, and I don't believe in long warmups.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/All-Climate.pdf

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx

Now, going to Diesels

Compare Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 (not "Extreme") versus Amsoil 15W40 HD Diesel/Marine Oil.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ame.aspx

http://www.valvoline.com/products/pbud.pdf

Amsoil TBN 12
VPBLU TBN 10

Blackstone recommends replacing oil at a TBN of 2 unless other factors cause a sooner change.

VPBLUX (Extreme) is a 5W40, and AMS 15W40 is still a better product. http://www.valvoline.com/products/PBX.pdf

You put alot of emphisis on TBN numbers. Yet oil analysis companies will allow continued use of TBN at 2.

There's alot more to an oil makeup and quality than just plain old TBN numbers. Maybe if we were back in the days before oil additive packages were being added to oils the PAO and other synthetic makeups were far superior but not in todays technology advanced era.

Just because an oil starts out at 12 verses one that starts out at 10 doesn't mean the 12 will last longer. There are other factors to concider in when to change an oil and when it is good enough to keep using.

You guys can keep helping the average guy to waste his money on expensive oil and at the same time driving up regular oil prices because now they can market their oils differently.

Most people don't realize that synthetic oils are still regular base oils developed from petroleum products. Even class III oils can be marketed as synthetics. Which by the way are your standard off the shelf oils. So technically most everyone is running a synthetic oil.

 

[DeezelDood]

Good thread here. I have zilch experience on truck diesels but may years with large marine diesel engines. TBN is Total Base Number. It indicates the amount of "base" additive in the oil. The base additive neutralizes acidic byproducts of combustion and must be maintained as an excess reserve in the lube oil. Sulphur in the fuel is the main contributer to acid. The advent of ULSD has reduced the amount of sulphur in the fuel, which should theoretically reduce the amount of acid byproduct. This is what makes the extended the drain interval (15,000 miles) on the new CTD possible. The base additive should be reduced in lubes to account for lower sulphur fuels. Excessive TBN additive, which is basically calcium, can leave deposits on all of your hot surfaces: piston rings, crowns, exh valves, catalytic converters. Even with ULSD the base additive will be used up over time. The synthetic oils are formulated for extended intervals, so they need extra base additive to neutralize the acid over the longer period. Personally, I change my dino oil at 6,000-7,500 miles. This is probably not necessary but I feel better. I have faith that the major lube companies have formulated the TBN package right (not too much, not too little). When/if I move to syn I'll have no problem with 15,000 miles. I, personally, would not go beyond that.