Home HVAC?

[Shelby Griggs]

I bought a new house last year, it is starting to warm up now and I am thinking of adding central A/C but know zip about them, never had more than a window A/C unit before.



I had a dealer come out yesterday and give me a quote, but I still don't know much.



My current heating is FA gas with a York furnace, I think he said it was a 2. 5 ton unit.



The house was sort of built to add this on, the wiring box is on the outside of the house, breaker installed, and a coil box is already on the furnace.



He quoted me 3 ton units, one A/C only and two heat pump models running in price from about $3K-7K. My house is two story about 1550 SF.



The heat, hot water and cook stove are all natural gas and from what I can tell living here less than a year, that bill is going to be UNDER $1000 per year.



Questions:



What is the ton rating mean on heating equipment, I think that must be different than the ton rating on my Ram



With an average of less than $100 a month gas bill, I suspect the heat pump may take a long time on payback????



The two lesser model were quoted with R-22, the expensive package was quoted with R-410. I know R-22 is going away, but should that be a deciding factor?



Any advice on this topic from the board experts would be appreciated.



SHG

 

[JNailor]

I went with central A/C about 6 years ago when I needed a new furnace. It's way better than window units. Now i'm looking at new systems for my shop. Look online at various mfg's. sites and search out HVAC message boards, a lot of info is out there. The ton ratings refer to the amount of BTU's (12,000/hour=ton sticks in my mind). Go with good quality and look for a high SEER rating. Get at least THREE estimates before choosing a company. Check out Thermo-pride units. I haven't had any service calls in 6 years, but I hose out the condenser coil each spring. BTW, mine is a RUUD 2. 5 ton. With our extremly high electric rates here in NY, it adds about $150 a month in July and Aug.

 

[Wayne M.]

I always thought the ton rating pertainted to A/C only, and that it is 16,000 BTU.

You said you had FA, meaning Forced Air? If so, I do have advice regarding the returns.

If they are low to the floor in the room, you should consider having them raised for AC operation, so the hot air in the room will be returned. I had AC installed in my old house, and they just opened the top of the register duct, cut a hole in the top of the bay between the studs, and installed another louvered vent up high. Top open bottom closed in summer, top closed and bottom open in winter.

My new house has baseboard heat and a seperate AC only FA system where all ductcs are high, and the equipment is in the attic, 2 zones.

It sounds like you have an AC ready furnace with the A coil installed (Great), why do they want to sell you a heat pump? From what I know from my Aunt who is in S. C. , heat pumps are not too good. Sounds like a step backward.

They do different things in different parts of the country, but I think a regular gas FA furnace with the AC piggybacked is the way to go. The ultimate would be to do a seperate 2 zone (up/down) system. Mine works great, and we leave the upstairs set to high temp druing the day, and lower it at bedtime. It catches up right away.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Thanks guys.



The guy that came out thought it would cost $2000-3000 to retrofit zones for upstairs and downstairs, I am not inclined to do that.



I am leaning toward AC only, not a heat pump, but I won't know for a while, the installer I talked to is going to work up a benefit analysis, but I can't meet with him for about a week. With less than an average $100 a month for heat, I think the heat pump would be wasted money.



My cold air return is one large intake in the stairwell between the 1st and 2nd floors and all of the outlets are in the floor, on both levels. I will probably just have to live with the vents as they are and no zoning, I can imagine several $1000's just to do all of that.



SHG

 

[daytripper63]

Check your P. M. s

 

[Skydiver]

Shelby,what is the temperature and humidity like in Prineville?

I have a 3 ton unit cooling 1750 sq ft on a single floor, rectangle shape, crawlspace home built in 96. We have high humidity and very warm summers.
If you have high humidity and an over sized unit the unit will not have time to dehumidify before it cuts off leaving you feeling sweaty. That is unless you drop the thermostat way down. I once ordered a 3 ton unit(free power) for our office and lab that was 1100 sq ft and at 75 degrees it still felt hot. It's better to go undersized than over sized.
If you are going to live in your new home for more than 5 years get a 14 seer or better.
As far as the return, the lower the better. Floor mount returns will get a lot of filth. The was once a Church that had a new system that was all placed in the attic. That unit would not cool at all. The return was up where the temps were the highest. Leave that HOT air in the ceiling .

An a/c system does not cool anything. It merely moves heat. (heat pump)The dehumidification we get is a bonus.
The best deal will be found by word of mouth.

I did not stay at a Holiday inn xpres last night but I did take a/c and refer way way back in 1979 at the jr. college.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Skydiver,



Climate here is semi arid high desert. We have warm days usually in July/August, and low humidity. Here is the current weather.



Fair



63°F

(17°C) Humidity: 19 %

Wind Speed: N 9 MPH



Barometer: 30. 21 in (1023. 00 mb)

Dewpoint: 20°F (-7°C)

Wind Chill: 62°F (17°C)

Visibility: 10. 00 Miles



It is a dry heat, so humidity won't be much of a concern.



SHG

 

[TowPro]

I did the job myself. I bought a Hamilton Home Products system (made by York). I ordered it from Carter Lumber, check the link above and see who is near you that can sell it for you.

I got a 3 ton AC unit. For an additional $500. 00 I bought the unit with the heat pump. It comes with the outside unit, the coil that mounts on top of your exhisting heater and a line set (you pick the size of the line set).

The coil, outside unit and lines all have this system where everything is pre charged and sealed. When you tighten the connections the seals break and the freion moves through the system. No need to evacuate the system.

I mounted the coil on top of my Jenson wood/coal stove (looks just like a forced air heater, has its own air blower and thermostat, and is tied into the home heat ducts.

I have a thermostat that has an outside temp sensor. I have it set where the heat pump runs until its 20F outside, then it switches over to oil heat. If have the thermostat set so when I change it to Emergency, it runs the wood/coal stove.

I used to burn 300 gallons of oil per year. the first year I used the heat pump I only burnt 75 gallons of oil for a savings of around $500. 00 in oil.

Where I live in SE PA, if you have a heat pump you qualify for Residental Heat rates. Once you use 600kwh of electric, your price per kwh goes way down. I discovered that my bill was only around $30. 00 per month higher to run the heat pump! I have had this system now for around 5 years. More then paid for the heat pump system so far.

 

[Wayne M.]

I did the job myself. I bought a Hamilton Home Products system (made by York). I ordered it from Carter Lumber, check the link above and see who is near you that can sell it for you.



I got a 3 ton AC unit. For an additional $500. 00 I bought the unit with the heat pump. It comes with the outside unit, the coil that mounts on top of your exhisting heater and a line set (you pick the size of the line set).



The coil, outside unit and lines all have this system where everything is pre charged and sealed. When you tighten the connections the seals break and the freion moves through the system. No need to evacuate the system.



I mounted the coil on top of my Jenson wood/coal stove (looks just like a forced air heater, has its own air blower and thermostat, and is tied into the home heat ducts.



I have a thermostat that has an outside temp sensor. I have it set where the heat pump runs until its 20F outside, then it switches over to oil heat. If have the thermostat set so when I change it to Emergency, it runs the wood/coal stove.



I used to burn 300 gallons of oil per year. the first year I used the heat pump I only burnt 75 gallons of oil for a savings of around $500. 00 in oil.



Where I live in SE PA, if you have a heat pump you qualify for Residental Heat rates. Once you use 600kwh of electric, your price per kwh goes way down. I discovered that my bill was only around $30. 00 per month higher to run the heat pump! I have had this system now for around 5 years. More then paid for the heat pump system so far.

I didn't understand the heat pump bit. I only understood it to be a sole heat source, but you seem say it's a mid weather alternative before the full heat system is used? I guess if the electric rates are Ok, it would work well. I learned something today.

 

[TowPro]

I didn't understand the heat pump bit. I only understood it to be a sole heat source, but you seem say it's a mid weather alternative before the full heat system is used? I guess if the electric rates are Ok, it would work well. I learned something today.

A heat pump takes heat from the outside, and moves it inside. It works like an AC, only backwards. (in fact, it is an AC running backwards. there is a valve in the outside unit that switches directions the freion flows depending on weather its in heat mode or cool mode).

Mine will work great down to 25deg F. If its dry out it works great down to 20deg F, but if its damp out it will have to go into defrost mode more often then I like.

Your thermostat decides when to run the heat pump and when to switch over to your backup system by using an outside temp sensor.

If you already have an oil or gas system with the room to put the coil on top of it (that is assuming your heater blows out the top), your set. since the coil uses the original heater, there is no reason to resize your ducts.

Most people hate heat pumps because they end up using electric heat elements as the backup $$$$$.

Because I don't have electric heat elements, I find it blows cold air when in defrost mode. that is why I switch between 20 and 25 deg change over point, depending on the moisture level (most times I leave it on 25. Once its below 25 its cold enough I can run the wood stove and not super heat the house)

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Another year has gone by AND I still didn't get this done, BUT am working on it again.



I have had three estimates.



The last guy out DID NOT recommend the heat pump, AC only due to higher maintenance costs, any savings in heating costs reduction with the natural gas furnace would be offset with the extra maintenance.



I think the one thing that is holding me back now is brand of unit?



I suspect this is just like trucks, everyone has their favorite, BUT is there anything to stay away from?



The last guy's option #1 was a Goodman, a quick Google brought up a few hits for noisy and low end, although they do have a 10 year warranty. Is that kind of like a Hyundai?



SHG

 

[DodgeWarlock]

Since you already have a good natural gas furnace, I would definately avoid the heat pump. Heat pumps work well in a mild climate but, do not cool as well as straight A/C and do not heat well at colder temps. With your climate I would highly suggest a good high efficiency straight A/C system. The heat pumps will generally require more maintenance over the years due to the more complicated control systems.



As for sytem recomendations...

Carrier and American Standard are both high end and high dollar, but you get what you pay for. I've known several Carrier systems my Dad and Grandaddy installed 25-30 years ago that still work like new with almost no maintenance.

If you are being more budget minded(as we all are these days) Look at Frigidaire. These systems are simple, efficient and have great warranty packages. I've helped my Dad install a lot of these the last several years and have been very pleased with the results. This is what I would put in if I had to do it today.

Hope it helps.

 

[mberry]

Since your climate is similar to mine, Please don't rule out an evaporative cooler. They make them where they tie into your existing duct too. I personally can live with the humidity as long as it's not too hot. I am going to purchase two evap coolers. One for the house, and one for the garage.

Our electric bill in summer with straight A/C is around $500 per month, winter heating ranges from $150-$200. This is due primarily witht he fact that my wife works from home now so there's no "off-peak" hours during the day. I'm looking to cut that bill significantly since it costs 1/3 to 1/10 the power for evap cooling vs A/C. If it gets too uncomfortable in the house, we can switch the A/C on during the hottest part of the day then switch back once it cools back down in the evenings. Our home is around 2100SF, single level.

 

[Wayne M.]

The last guy's option #1 was a Goodman, a quick Google brought up a few hits for noisy and low end, although they do have a 10 year warranty. Is that kind of like a Hyundai?



SHG

I don't know about Goodman, but I have Gibson which was a bulider's choice to install. Going on 5th season and I'm happy with it. Last house was a Non A/C forced air heat converted to A/C and York was installed. That was real good and quiet too.