Truck and trailer legalities?

[Trusty Steed]

In Indiana if you are 26000 lb's with a truck you need a cdl. If you have a trailer over 10,000 lb's you need a Cdl if you combine for 26001.



I picked up a dump rated at 11,400. Now my plate options are 11,000, 16,000 , and 22,000. The license girl said 11,000 is not enough. Ok, first question is... if I am stopped by the dot do they care what my gvw is, or my licienced weight? Am I overweight if I weigh 12,000 if I have a 16k plate because I exceed my gvw? Or, do they go by axle weights and pay no heed to the gvw or liceienced weight, or something in between? If they go by gvw, then why have a plate rated for more then your truck can legally carry? Is it all just maddness?



Next question is, I am looking at a 14,000 lb trailer. If I get the 16k plate, I would need a cdl with the 14k trailer. Can I legally put a plate on the truck rated at less then the truck's gvw?



Does anyone really know the answers to these questions, or are even the state cops confused. I have talked to a couple who came to different conclusions.



Thanks for your help

 

[HBarlow]

If the actual scale or rated (GVWR stickers) weight of your truck or your combined truck and trailer exceed 26,000 lbs and if you are commercial you will require a CDL.



If you have a CDL you are good up to 26,000 lbs. DOT officers don't care what the GVWR of your truck is. They do care about your registered weight for tax purposes. They also care about actual scale weight and axle weights. You should register your truck for 26,000 lbs. What I'm saying here is DOT cops don't care if your actual weight exceeds what Dodge said your gross weight or gross combined weights are as long as you don't exceed the tire capacity on each axle.



Here's another kink: If your actual weight exceeds 26,000 lbs. you are required to have an IFTA sticker (fuel tax).



IN probably prints a commercial driver's handbook like most other states. Ask at your local DMV or driver's license office.



Harvey

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

If the actual scale or rated (GVWR stickers) weight of your truck or your combined truck and trailer exceed 26,000 lbs and if you are commercial you will require a CDL.



If you have a CDL you are good up to 26,000 lbs. DOT officers don't care what the GVWR of your truck is. They do care about your registered weight for tax purposes. They also care about actual scale weight and axle weights. You should register your truck for 26,000 lbs. What I'm saying here is DOT cops don't care if your actual weight exceeds what Dodge said your gross weight or gross combined weights are as long as you don't exceed the tire capacity on each axle.



Here's another kink: If your actual weight exceeds 26,000 lbs. you are required to have an IFTA sticker (fuel tax).



IN probably prints a commercial driver's handbook like most other states. Ask at your local DMV or driver's license office.



Harvey

Variations of this "Legal weight" question have raged ever since I joined this group - and in reality, *2* basic related issues are involved:



1. What the various state DMV's will, or will not allow PURELY based upon transportation laws.



2. What your vehicle insurance carrier will COVER you for in case of a serious liability claim.



And the individual had dern well BETTER address BOTH issues, if they value their freedom and bank accounts!



And while

"What I'm saying here is DOT cops don't care if your actual weight exceeds what Dodge said your gross weight or gross combined weights are as long as you don't exceed the tire capacity on each axle.

MIGHT apply to the DMV, there's a very GOOD likelihood your insurance carrier would immediately use a serious case of vehicle overloading as grounds to deny coverage on a multi-million dollar liability claim.



So, your question needs to be asked - and answered - by BOTH the DMV, AND your vehicle insurance carrier - they may well BOTH be deeply involved, depending upon circumstances...

 

[Trusty Steed]

It sounds like total maddness to me. In Indiana we plate both truck and trailer. I know some states you plate a truck with consideration of your trailer. So if my truck is rated for 11,400, if I got a plate for 11,000 I would be ok if I did not weigh more then 11,000, and did not exceed any axle weights. I could then plate a trailer for 14,000, and not exceed the 26001 weight requireing a cdl.



Now if I got a 16,000 lb plate, I would still be overweight if my truck weighed 11,401. So it seems that the 16000 lb truck plate only buys me protection from 11,001-11,400. The downfall would be I would need a cdl as the 16,000 plate on the truck, and gvw of the trailer being over 10,000 would put my combined over 26001.



Is this right?



I will have to look into the insurance end of the deal, very good info, thanks!



The DMV was not very helpful.



Your input is appreciated.

 

[HBarlow]

If you purchase a 16,000 lb. registration for your truck you would be legal up to and including a scale weight of 16,000 lbs. provided that your actual axle weights do not exceed the rated carrying capacity of your tires. LT235/85-16 LRE tires, which are common on duallys, have a rated weight of 3,042 lbs. , less in dual wheel applications. Those tires would allow 6,000 lbs. on steer axle and 12,000 on drive axle. As I wrote above, DOT enforcement officers don't care what the manufacturer says the GVWR of your truck is. They will determine if you are overweight based on tire capacity.



If you put a 16,000 lb. plate on your truck and a 14,000 lb. plate on your trailer you would have to have a CDL because your licensed weight would be 30,000 lbs. You would probably have to have an IFTA fuel tax sticker also This is because the way DOT officers enforce weights for non-CDL drivers is based not on actual scale weights but on rated weights. If the manufacturer's maximum rated weight of your truck which is found on the GVWR sticker in the door post added to the maximum rated weight of your trailer found on the VIN plate exceed 26,000 lbs. you are required to have a CDL.



You didn't say but I assume that you will be using a dump bed truck with a GVWR of 11,400 lbs. and a trailer with a 14,000 lb. GVWR for a commercial purpose. It sounds like a landscaper or similar business. You won't want to hear this but you will probably be required to have DOT numbers on your truck, a DOT physical exam card, reflective triangles, fire extinguisher mounted in the cab, a DOT vehicle inspection decal on your truck, keep a log book, obey hours of service rules, and stop at all scales. If you operate entirely within the state of Indiana IN DOT may not require all of the above but if you cross state lines it will certainly be required.



Some TDR members are fond of throwing around the red herring of denied insurance claims and lawsuits when they want to win an argument about exceeding factory GVWR sticker weights. I have never seen anyone cite an actual case of denied insurance coverage or a lawsuit that was decided on the basis of exceeding the GVWR of a pickup or light truck. It would not be a bad idea for you to ask your insurance agent what their position is on registering and operating a light truck at weights exceeding the manufacturer's GVWR but I wouldn't worry about it.



There are literally thousands of men and a few women in the US and CN using diesel-powered light trucks, mostly dually pickups, to transport RVs all across the US and CN. The large transport companies who "employ" them insure their driver's and trucks while loaded with at least one million dollar liability policies written by major insurance companies. They also employ trained safety officers who monitor driver/truck registration, licensing, equipment, insurance, and other related factors. All the bigger companies instruct and require their drivers to register their trucks at 26,000 lbs. to cover the combined weights of truck and trailer. DOT officers look for it during inspections.



Harvey

 

[Philip]

The person you need to talk to is a DOT officer for this state. He can give you all the correct answers. It shouldn't be hard to find one. There is normaly one hanging around on highway 6 going east. Or call the closest IHP office and ask them to send him to your location. They would rather talk to you this way than give you a big ticket for being illegal.



The DMV people have no idea about the answers your wanting.

 

[Trusty Steed]

Harvey



Wow, thanks for taking the time to write that extensive post. Awesome!! That makes more sense to me. I already have my Dot and associated goodies. I am for hire and a Landscaper, so you were correct on many counts. I really had to spend some time researching the dot thing, with several different answers. I was given a nice publication from a fella at Purdue that was pretty complete on the Dot. The document told you why you needed a Dot, but did not explain much about weights and rules.



I have spoke to a few State cops in the past few years. I did get some differing answers from them, and they have not been very friendly, or willing to help. It kind of seems like the luck of the draw when you get a hold of one.



Phillip, you are right about State police on 6, I also see them on 8 and 49 with great frequency, it is just getting them when they are stopped and I can pull my rig over near them. I don't know if they will all be as full of information as I do not know if they all are trained on the Dot rules as I think some are specific Dot officers.



Great stuff, and thanks guys!

 

[Philip]

You need to talk to the guy's in the gray cars. They are truck inforcement section.



The normal IHP officer doesn't know that much about the DOT reg's and weights. If you call the local IHP they can send the truck enforcement section guy out to you.

 

[GeneA]

I would be very careful about asking DOT guys specific questions thinking they are just there t help you. You might not like the answers they give you. Also these guys are specifically looking for ways to write you a ticket. I had one guy start asking me what kind of income tax return I files and deductions I take, all of which I believe is none of their business. Also, in NEBRASKA the law allows you an additional 1000# over your licensed weight. That may be true of other states as well.

 

[CDonaldson]

I posed similar questions to my DMV person, got the deer in the headlights look combined with a hereford type answer. Ultimately I concluded that the DMV people do not know the answer. I then went to the State Police office and asked the same question, the answer was simple - PAY for the plate fees that will cover your butt AND have the correct license - they are cheaper fees in the overall than the fines for not having the weight class of registration needed and the appropriate license. It DOES appear that they really do not care about the mfr's ratings, tire ratings play a very important role, but you registration/plate and license fees say it all - you have paid the price to do what you are doing.



Most all states private drivers licenses are called a class 3 or class 'C' license. A class 3 license is defined for 3 axle combinations and a max tow of 10K or combined NOT to exceed 15,999, it's in the regs/definitions of license classifications, and has been standardized in all states since the early 90's. One then has to ask - if our trucks weigh around 8K can we still tow the 10K or are we now limited to a tow of around 8K because of the truck weight?



CA is the only state (I believe) that offers the RV endorsement to exceed the 15,999 in combination. After that, it all becomes a free-for-all depending on which state you are in. If your registrations for the truck and the trailer are up to the max they can be you have at least eliminated that part of the argument, the license argument still applies. It seems like there is this gray area between the 15,999 and the 26,001 slot when trying to apply whether you NEED a commercial license. It would seem to me that if you are a commercial business it would be necesary to have the commercial license.



Having said all that, the non-commercial guy IS STILL waving out there as to whether they ARE legal or not with weights over the 15,999 and 3-axle combined limits of their class 3 or C license.



CD





CD

 

[ThrottleJockey]

My truck has a 26000 pound plate on it. No IFTA sticker.

 

[HBarlow]

My truck has a 26000 pound plate on it. No IFTA sticker.

Like I wrote above, if you register your truck and trailer for weight IN EXCESS OF 26,000 lbs. you will need an IFTA sticker.



Harvey

 

[TAbbott]

"... there's a very GOOD likelihood your insurance carrier would immediately use a serious case of vehicle overloading as grounds to deny coverage on a multi-million dollar liability claim. "





I just don't believe that to be true. After all, it's not really you they'd be denying coverage to, would it? I think the first time your insurance company tried telling your "victim" they weren't going to cover their losses because their insured was overloaded, was drunk, was on drugs or any other of a myriad of things, (all of which are illegal) that would be the last time they sold an insurance policy in that state. The Insurance Commission would have their hind-end!!! Would you get cancelled? I imagine so. Would your carrier try to collect their damages from your criminal liability? Probably. Can they deny liability coverage to the public?? No way in he**!! They issued a certificate to the public accepting you as a risk, warts and all.

 

[HBarlow]

TAbbott,



You are absolutely correct. It is extremely unlikely that an insurance carrier would refuse to pay. They might drop the insured after the case was all settled but even that is an indirect way of admitting fault. Insurance companies are VERY sensitive about lawsuits and about regulatory action by state legislatures in states where they write lots of policies.



I was an insurance adjuster for one year back in the mid '90s. I was amazed that the company I worked for, one of the major household name companies that everyone knows, paid several claims after I investigated and recommended against paying. From their point of view settling a case, even one where actual coverage and responsibility is doubtful, is cheaper than long drawn out lawsuits and jury determined settlements.



Harvey

 

[Bob V]

TAbbott,



You are absolutely correct. It is extremely unlikely that an insurance carrier would refuse to pay. They might drop the insured after the case was all settled but even that is an indirect way of admitting fault. Insurance companies are VERY sensitive about lawsuits and about regulatory action by state legislatures in states where they write lots of policies.



I was an insurance adjuster for one year back in the mid '90s. I was amazed that the company I worked for, one of the major household name companies that everyone knows, paid several claims after I investigated and recommended against paying. From their point of view settling a case, even one where actual coverage and responsibility is doubtful, is cheaper than long drawn out lawsuits and jury determined settlements.



Harvey

Thanks to booth of you!!!!! I get tired of hearing all the crap about not being insured if you are over your GVWR. BTW the insurance co do know how much you truck is licensed for, and, most likely, how much your RV or trailer weighs