WVO People Where Are You?

[DonTX]

Most intersting response, thanks. I hope perhaps it will generate comments pro and con by others.

Especially interesting was that you have trouble obtaining WVO. I have been led to believe it is everywhere waiting to be taken. Can you comment on the lack of available WVO? Anyone?

 

[JFaughn]

WVO was a resource for feedstock & soap before a lot of people looked at it for fuel ,
And fuel has the capacity to be a bigger interest , so it just supply & demand , same supply but more demand .
I'll have to say again , that there is a number of sources [ a guy leading the bio-diesel studies here at the U of M ] and others that are much more laboratory based , that are saying that its problematic using WVO .
I keep reading its too much trouble to bother with processing [ a few hours once a mth. ] vs. putting in a 2 tank system & monitoring every time you use your truck , [ I drive at least 50-60 hrs. mth. ] .
I am not trying to get every one to do anything my way , just passing on info , much like religion , a lot of operating on faith rather than facts / numbers .
I willing to change my mind if the facts/numbers are there , [ studying from lab. conditions - then putting on the road ] , every thing that I have found has been individual use , no lab. , no tear downs .
Just wanting those that may be considering , to make inform decisions .
Always trying to keep the mind open .

 

[DonTX]

Again, thanks for telling it like you see it. Those are points that I have not seen brought up before.

I do understand that when a fellow spends 2-3 thousand dollars on a WVO system, he will normally extoll the good points and how smart he was to get it, but not divulge the bad things about it. After reading first hand accounts covering hundreds of thousands of miles, none of the bad things you mention ever surfaced.

You appear to have done lots of research, do you have any links to the references you mentioned?

 

[JFaughn]

It seems like every time I get a good selection links the computer dies , 4 laptops in about 5 yrs.
Like my post have said , most of the studies were about the transesterfication process , a lot of mention to the need of taking out the triglycerides , then focusing on the process [ again no intensive studies on using WVO ] = what individuals do on there own & not under laboratory conditions without tear downs , do not count as empirical evidence , =thats why I'm here to see what the individuals are doing , it seems to be accepted that the gliserin's need to come out .
I wish I was a couple decades younger so that my computer skills were better & I could transfer info better from one thing to an other .
I'll do some digging , because it seems as though this is becoming an issue , fuel prices , ect.

 

[DonTX]

I would appreciate that. Without one cent spent yet, I am a very open mind trying to get smarter.

I find the lack of interest on this site and wvo useage noteworthy. Something seems wrong, not sure just what that is.

 

[JFaughn]

Have you looked into some of the bio-diesel forms & other sites ?
Along with dieing computers , each new one does it different so have to learn too large a % of stuff over again , this time its a Macbook .
I've got a CD that the state of MN. was handing out at a green/energy fair , all kinds of alt. energy , building & stuff , it would be a large file to send & then haven't done that before , would like to know if how to send , free info is great .

 

[JFaughn]

Dug a good link out of the old hard drive .
There was at least 3 or more universities that had good studies , UofM , UofU , & this one .

Biodiesel/Biofuels Research

 

[DonTX]

An issue that bothers me, but I never see addressed, is that putting anything other than diesel fuel in our trucks is illegal! (I wonder where the loyalties lie with people that make such laws?) Anybody care to comment about that aspect of alternate fuels?

 

[cj hall]

fuel

hello to all



if you make your own fuel and use it for your own use no problem what the problem is when you sell the fuel (they want the tax money)but there is a loop hole if you call it an additive and place it in your tank after you put your taxed fuel in then its not a fuel its an additive. no problem. do it the other way and it a fuel !!!!!! ahaaaaaaaa the govt is it no wonder .



the state that i live in says that veg oil is not classed as a fuel ! so they have no idea what to do. this will change.



happy for now



cj hall

 

[DonTX]

That would seem to disagree with the following quote, which I got from the Frybrid website:



"Is it legal to use straight vegetable oil as fuel?



First, we are not lawyers, and cannot give legal advice. However, this is what appears to be the current legal status of the use of vegetable oil



Currently, it is legal to use SVO as a fuel if you are not on a public road, i. e. on a farm, private road, public lands. The EPA does not currently regulate off-road diesel emissions and off-road diesel fuel is not subject to road tax. In 2007, EPA regulations are being introduced that will regulate off-road emissions, and by extension fuel choice.



If you want to drive a vehicle fueled by straight vegetable oil on public roads there are state and federal laws to abide by.



Most states seem to be satisfied if you pay road tax and pass any mandatory emission tests. You can request forms from your state's department of revenue to calculate and submit road tax.



The Federal situation is less clear. First, the degree of modifications to the fuel system in a vegetable oil conversion constitutes prohibited after-market tampering, and the EPA has started to require some conversion companies to begin a process of certification of compliance that demonstrates that the modifications do not cause an increase in emissions compared to the baseline system and fuel. The certification process is expensive and must be done for every test family, which in earlier years matches engine families, but with newer cars may only be one model year. No kit in any vehicle has yet been certified and not all the companies in the field have been contacted.



Even if a conversion is certified, and your vehicle is legal, there's still the question of the fuel itself. The EPA regulations are clear that in order for a fuel to enter commerce it has to pass Tier I & II testing, a very expensive undertaking. However, it is not clear whether the EPA has jurisdiction on fuel that does not enter commerce. There is some reason to believe that the EPA may decide that they need not regulate fuel that has not been sold, or vegetable oil that has not been sold as fuel. "

 

[Msilbernagel]

Don,

I would be interested any references to support the rather broad assertion that putting anything other than diesel fuel in our trucks is illegal. I haven't seen it in my eTravels, at least.

From what I can tell, there are often state-by-state issues on the matter of what is taxed and how the taxes are paid. There may be other regulations if the fuel is sold to others, although it sounds like Illinois is a bit confused on that one too.

I passed emissions testing on blended fuel, last month.

Thanks,

Mark
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An issue that bothers me, but I never see addressed, is that putting anything other than diesel fuel in our trucks is illegal! (I wonder where the loyalties lie with people that make such laws?) Anybody care to comment about that aspect of alternate fuels?

 

[JFaughn]

I order to foresee any legal entanglements , you need to have a perspective that tells you about the motivations of those making the laws , [ lobyest for that oil companies either do all the advising , if not there lawyers directly making the laws ] , then theres the other money stealers , the government that wants to tax us , its not law enforcement , but revenue enhancement .

 

[DonTX]

It would appear that there are Federal as well as state requirements to consider. I suppose if just running illegal is condoned, then just run farm diesel for the discount. In both situations, getting caught and the penalty is the other part of the equation.

Don,



I would be interested any references to support the rather broad assertion that putting anything other than diesel fuel in our trucks is illegal. I haven't seen it in my eTravels, at least.



From what I can tell, there are often state-by-state issues on the matter of what is taxed and how the taxes are paid. There may be other regulations if the fuel is sold to others, although it sounds like Illinois is a bit confused on that one too.



I passed emissions testing on blended fuel, last month.



Thanks,



Mark

-

 

[Msilbernagel]

Don,



I don't understand - to my knowledge it is NOT illegal, so I am a little confused by your comments.



Thanks,



Mark

-

It would appear that there are Federal as well as state requirements to consider. I suppose if just running illegal is condoned, then just run farm diesel for the discount. In both situations, getting caught and the penalty is the other part of the equation.

 

[DonTX]

It was not MY comments, it was the comments of FRYBRID, who makes and sells WVO units. Since they are in the business of selling kits, obviously they would want to "interpret" the law as loosely as they could, but you see what they say. You can click on here and go read what they have to say: Frybrid Vegetable Oil Fuel Systems -- FAQ



I was a little shocked as well when I first came across that, since I had "assumed" that the government would be encouraging anything that reduced our dependence on foreign fossil fuel. Apparently not so. I am now a bit spooked at spending thousands to convert and collect, only to be heavily fined and told to get rid of it all since it is not legal.



My point was to present this at this forum to see if anyone had been caught, knew of ways around it, etc. Comments welcomed!

 

[Headshot zod]

Get the form from the IRS and pay your road taxes. And move on. Its a gray area. Technically veg oil isn't a street legal fuel since there isn't a standard for it and there couldn't possibly be one. And unless your homemade biodiesel is tested before you put it in your tank and it meets all the Federal standards it probably isn't a legal fuel either.



Technically no veg oil kit is street legal since none have been Federally approved. I think greasecar is trying to get one approved though. I believe it's technically illegal to improve your vehicles emissions w/o carb certified parts.



This subject has been beaten to death on every forum on this planet and some nearby others.



You may want to go the Frybrid legal forums. There is some great reading there

 

[Msilbernagel]

Don,



I read the FAQ on Frybrid carefully, and remain unconvinced that burning blended fuel is illegal in any general sense. It does say that modifying fuel systems could be an issue with the EPA. It also talks about regulations for fuel "entering commerce". The fellow posting after you is right - the matter has been discussed pretty extensively elsewhere. In all my reading of those places, I've only run across people wresting with tax issues at the state level - as long as it was personal use; or, in Kalifornia, laws regulating the pick-up and transport of used oil...



Unless you have local laws on collection, and as long as you collect the oil with the restaurant owner's permission, taxes would seem to be your greatest and probably only issue as long as you don't modify your fuel system.



That leaves either home-grown biodiesel (transesterification with Lye and Methanol), or blending?



Of course, depending upon where you live, you also get to pass emissions testing...



Thanks,



Mark

-

It was not MY comments, it was the comments of FRYBRID, who makes and sells WVO units. Since they are in the business of selling kits, obviously they would want to "interpret" the law as loosely as they could, but you see what they say. You can click on here and go read what they have to say: Frybrid Vegetable Oil Fuel Systems -- FAQ



I was a little shocked as well when I first came across that, since I had "assumed" that the government would be encouraging anything that reduced our dependence on foreign fossil fuel. Apparently not so. I am now a bit spooked at spending thousands to convert and collect, only to be heavily fined and told to get rid of it all since it is not legal.



My point was to present this at this forum to see if anyone had been caught, knew of ways around it, etc. Comments welcomed!