NV5600/aftermarket clutch?

[MMeier]

Any one out there running a 5600 with an aftermarket clutch experiencing difficulty getting trans into 1st, 2nd, or reverse gears while stopped?

 

[trainhorndodge]

Yup. All the time. Only thing that seems to help is blip the throttle to 2500rpm with the clutch pedal in and holding pressure against the gear I want. I've talked to a couple of other guys having the same problem.

 

[MMeier]

So, I take it there is no known fix for this either?? Short of buying a new truck? #@$%!

 

[Grizzly]

That doesn't sound right, what brand of clutch did you install? How many miles did you have on the clock when you replaced the clutch?

 

[GCroyle]

Need More Details

Lots of possible causes for ANY brand to experience difficulties selecting those gears from a stop. Have you tried selecting any higher gears just to see if it transmission or clutch, that might be interesting, this is just a test.



Release bearing travel, . 550" will allow the plate to lift off or a disc by about . 045". If this event happens, then it is now up to the disc and input shaft to cooperate.



Disc must not be bent into a potatoe chip shape, that will not "rotate between" the F/W and pressure plate gap.



Spline must be clean, free from rust this is a common oversight, leaving the spline in the as removed, rusty, dirty, gunked up condition when replacing a clutch, and then the disc is unable to slide on the input shaft.



Disc hub free from burrs that can be created during a nasty day with a trans installation. The burrs inhibit free sliding, = drag = hard to release.



Pilot bearing failure, damage, concentric misalignment of transmission to engine, everyone, please make sure that your dowel sleeves are in place and in good condition.

 

[MMeier]

That doesn't sound right, what brand of clutch did you install? How many miles did you have on the clock when you replaced the clutch?

SBC's Con fe went in at 129k when first 5600 locked up. second 5600 messed upat 169k and been having problems since, replaced fluid with high$$$$ Mopar crap, "oh, your shifter is bad", replaced that, no change, oh"oh, your clutch diaphragm spring doesn't look right", blah blah ,blah, and so on and so forth. Then they started to f around with the hydrauilcs on the truck, spent 10 whole days in there, drove it home 9. x miles, following morning , no clutch, towed back in, replaced master, sent me on my way. set out for a stack of trailers in OKC, made it to Albuq, go to exit Interstate. guess what. no f'n clutch, damn near plowed into 2 semis!#@$%!Hit up shop for repairs in Albuq, rental, gas for rental, wasted fuel on my rig and tow bill, doesn't want to do nothing but 1/2 parts, labor and tow bill if I let them put in my new OFE set up... . they replaced my FE with a step up clutch from 6 states. truck now has 181k on it and still has a nasty shifting "transmission" the way I see it. 1,2 and r are a real bear to get into when hot... . 3,4,5 and 6 are easy, hot or cold, enough info? PLEASE HELP!!!!

 

[BJMarshall]

The 03 has an OFE in it. It goes into any gear perfectly when cold, but 1st and 2nd are a little stiff after driving a bit. Once transmission is really hot say after towing heavy for 6 or 8 hours, it is almost impossible to get into 1st or 2nd. Reverse grinds a little, but it does that hot or cold.

The clutch and all related parts are not to blame. I thought it may be the pilot bearing, but after looking at it, it's fine. I think it is a transmission problem, but I don't have a clue what it could be. I have the right fluid in it and change it regular.

It is much worse when towing than when empty. The hotter the transmission gets, the harder it is to get into gear. I think I am going to look at some ways to keep it cooler.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Lots of possible causes for ANY brand to experience difficulties selecting those gears from a stop. Have you tried selecting any higher gears just to see if it transmission or clutch, that might be interesting, this is just a test.



Release bearing travel, . 550" will allow the plate to lift off or a disc by about . 045". If this event happens, then it is now up to the disc and input shaft to cooperate.



Disc must not be bent into a potatoe chip shape, that will not "rotate between" the F/W and pressure plate gap.



Spline must be clean, free from rust this is a common oversight, leaving the spline in the as removed, rusty, dirty, gunked up condition when replacing a clutch, and then the disc is unable to slide on the input shaft.



Disc hub free from burrs that can be created during a nasty day with a trans installation. The burrs inhibit free sliding, = drag = hard to release.



Pilot bearing failure, damage, concentric misalignment of transmission to engine, everyone, please make sure that your dowel sleeves are in place and in good condition.

GREAT post - glad to see it posted by someone actually IN the clutch business!



Far too many guys having problems with aftermarket clutches immediately start throwing rocks at the clutch maker, instead of verifying the expertise of the installation - not referring to the originator of THIS thread, but many similar ones.

 

[MMeier]

The 03 has an OFE in it. It goes into any gear perfectly when cold, but 1st and 2nd are a little stiff after driving a bit. Once transmission is really hot say after towing heavy for 6 or 8 hours, it is almost impossible to get into 1st or 2nd. Reverse grinds a little, but it does that hot or cold.

The clutch and all related parts are not to blame. I thought it may be the pilot bearing, but after looking at it, it's fine. I think it is a transmission problem, but I don't have a clue what it could be. I have the right fluid in it and change it regular.

It is much worse when towing than when empty. The hotter the transmission gets, the harder it is to get into gear. I think I am going to look at some ways to keep it cooler.

BJM, how many miles on your rig?

 

[one8upcb]

I have the con ofe in mine and have one minor difference and that is when im starting out i get a little bucking. But other than that it shifts smooth in every gear. I use penzoil sycromesh for fluid. Would a re-surfaced flywheel make a difference?

 

[d90boy]

Guy I sold my 03 to started having this problem. First thing we did was replace the clutch hydraulics with south bends heavy duty adjustable setup. That seemed to fix it for a while when adjusted out to release near the top of pedal travel. It still continued though so we pulled the transmission, replaced the throwout bearing, pilot bearing and cleaned everyting up and it went away.



If you go into another gear then can you select 1,2 or R?

 

[MMeier]

Sometimes... and not always,if I grab 3rd I can get it into 1st or 2nd, other times, grabbing 3rd then trying for 1st or 2nd, it will go "1/2way" and if I let the clutch out a bit it will "jump" the rest of the way in, that pretty much tells me it is a trans issue, not the clutch, correct?

 

[bmoeller]

Was the flywheel turned when the new clutch(s) went in? Almost sounds like it wasn't, or not done properly.

 

[d90boy]

Just talked to guy who bought my 03, he says he still has issues. I'm pretty sure there is a TSB on this. Starts to sound like trans more and more.

 

[MMeier]

Was the flywheel turned when the new clutch(s) went in? Almost sounds like it wasn't, or not done properly.

Yes it was, as per SBC's instructions, IIRC . 008 the first time (129k miles) and . 005 the second time around( approx. 38-40k), only 12k on it since then, we shall see what it looks like Tuesday. Was just about to fix the problem for good and buy a new truck, but it looks like they have some issues all to themselves. #@$%!

 

[TheWolf]

I had a similar problem when I fist installed my FE, dealer tlaked to southbend, was sent a new clutch... installed and my problem went away and haven't had any problems for probably 75k to 90k miles. Cant remember exactly when it went in.

 

[GCroyle]

Clutch Bench Testing and Damper Inspection

With the details provided, the one thing that smells a little bit and needs to be verified now if the truck is apart. You have had a transmission replacement. We did an installation for AndyMan and he had a replacelment transmission too, but he was missing one dowel sleeve and it caused a lot of disc damage and his pilot bearing had serious installation issues.



I sincerely recommend that if it at all possible you personally inspect for the presence of the dowel sleeves and check the holes for damage. These align the input shaft to the crankshaft, the pilot carries the weight / load of the input shaft.



Concentric alignment problems = shifting problems and torsion damper damage.



Check the disc on to input shaft for free sliding on the length of the splines.



CLUTCH BENCH TESTING.

Set up your flywheel on a bench, position the disc on the F/W, put the cover on, start the bolts and tighten like normal, 1/2 turn at a time, no impact gun! use a staggered pattern, make sure the cover is seated to the F/W. You might want to run the bolts in to the F/W first, make sure they go down into the pilot holes in the F/W fully prior to doing this test, too much grinding can reduce the pilot hole depth, just check it.



If you have a shop press, put the whole package under the press you can put the bearing on top of the spring tips, just watch for clearance at the clips.



Bring the ram down, make contact, mark the position of the ram somehow, stroke the ram . 500-. 600", release then repeat, release then repeat.



Now, put the ram just touching the bearing (very light pressure) re-mark the ram, travel about . 550". Leave it in this position, take a look at the disc, is it free to float? You should clearly see an air gap above the disc.



Done correctly this WILL NOT DAMAGE the clutch, and if you do not have a shop press, you can do the same thing with a simple 1/2" threaded rod, some big washers, nuts to lock it at the bottom, and a nut to turn down with.



If it does not release on the bench, clutch probelm.



Releases on the bench, but not in the truck, need to verify hydraulics, need to verify pilot bearing condition and dowel sleeves.



CLUTCH VISUAL INSPECTION.

It would be very helpful if you could inspect the cover and disc, take pictures, pay attention to the damper (center spring section) hub pilot holes, both sides, stop pins (they are double ended rivets that hold the damper together, look for rubbing from contact of the hub flange, some wear may be unavoidalble due to high torque, heavy pulling, but they shouldn't be worn 1/2 way through) the old parts can tell a good story.

 

[BJMarshall]

BJM, how many miles on your rig?

It's got about 160k on it now on the original transmission. Transmission fluid has been changed 3 times since we got it with 120k on it. I don't think it was serviced very well before we got it, but I don't think it towed a lot either.

A pattern that I am noticing is that once the fluid has been hot once, the shifting quality goes away, but comes back when the fluid is changed. I have only run penzoil synchromesh in it and have not tried anything else.

 

[100 Proof]

Potential Solution...

Hi Guys-



I've got the Southbend Con OFE in mine and have noticed the same issue. What I do to address it when I'm starting off is simply depress the clutch pedal and hold it down for a couple of seconds BEFORE shifting into any gear. It typically goes right into gear doing that. I just figured (SWAG) that the feramic lining on the new disk is heavier has more rotational inertia than the stock unit and it takes a little extra time for the input shaft to stop rotating so the gears will mesh.



I think it would be cool if the rest of you who have this issue will try what I described above, see what happens, and report your results back on this thread.



BTW, this clutch has no problem holding the numbers in my sig!



Thanks!

100 Proof

 

[MMeier]

Hi Guys-



I've got the Southbend Con OFE in mine and have noticed the same issue. What I do to address it when I'm starting off is simply depress the clutch pedal and hold it down for a couple of seconds BEFORE shifting into any gear. It typically goes right into gear doing that. I just figured (SWAG) that the feramic lining on the new disk is heavier has more rotational inertia than the stock unit and it takes a little extra time for the input shaft to stop rotating so the gears will mesh.



I think it would be cool if the rest of you who have this issue will try what I described above, see what happens, and report your results back on this thread.



BTW, this clutch has no problem holding the numbers in my sig!



Thanks!

100 Proof

Have you noticed more pedal pressure is required with the OFE over what you replaced? I did, but overall I might try this set up for a bit and see what happens. Don't recall my FE needing that much pedal effort though. I would hope an OFE can hold 443 HP!!!:-laf