You need a CDL if your trailer if over 10,000# !!

[CDonaldson]

If you guys want REAL CONFUSION you should try to cipher the New Mexico drivers license laws and registration. Here it does not SEEM as though it makes any difference whether you are commercial or private/personal/not for hire. Our basic operator's licenses have this definition attached to them that talks about "any 3-axle combination and not in excess of 10K#'s towing". SO, your vehicle is considered to be 2-axles, if you tow a two-axle trailer - doing the math that's 4 axles?? Then there is the registration stuff - our trucks equipped with the CTD get registered as "tractors", something to do with all diesels being called tractors from eons ago before they put them in pickups, yada/yada. I think one of the north eastern states has some issues regarding diesels in cars and registration too. Anyway, so then they "view" a 4xdually as having 3 axles??? towing a two-axle trailer-that's 5axles??? Bump that up a notch to a tandem trailer - since the wheel counts on the dually make the dual rears equal 2 - a tandem must equal 4, now you have 7 axles??? I asked the DMV a few questions regarding all of this - got the deer in the headlights look out of that gal. I asked a State Trooper, got basically all the math I stated already. Then I asked another State Trooper and his comment to me was - "well, I don't understand it all that well either". If the guys that enforce the laws don't understand it all that well, then how are WE supposed to figure it all out???



I just hook up my stuff and drive. I have been pulled over in one of those roadside DOT things - got my fuel checked, was asked about carrying a first aid kit, carrying a flashlight, carrying reflectors, and also a fuel log book, but no hours of driving stuff. My registration is in my personal name, but my truck IS called a tractor. I was pulling an empty trailer so I was below any numbers that really mattered when put on the portable scale. The DOT guy DID comment that if/when I loaded my trailer I should be really conscious about the load BECAUSE my license was only good for a combined of . . and a 10K max towing. He did not say a word about the fact that I really was viewed as 4 axles, and only licensed for 3.



Geeze . .



CD

 

[JHardwick]

You must first of all realize that the CDL is a FEDERAL requirement for commercial vehicles. Each state is charged with making laws that comply, they can make ANY vehicle need a CDL in their state, but they cannot REDUCE the requirements of the Feds. Therein lies the reason we get different views from different states.

In general, if you are hauling commercially, you need a CDL to be competitive and in compliance with each state. The GVWR 26001 rule is only ONE of several definitions. .

I made a long post to this and it got lost.



I thought you may have been on to something, but FLA checks out the same as FED.



I'm gonna be over 26,001 with my new trailer anyway, but other companies may suffer from his good intentions.



Unlicensed, uninsured companies need weeded out of this industry anyway, but bad information to the uninformed consumer is worse than no information.

 

[JHardwick]

Glad I don't live in NM CDonaldson, LOL.

 

[DonTX]

You know what a vehicle actually weighs has never been part of CDL regulation, only the GVWR, with the emphasis on RATING. (I don't mean to be a smart alec, but I spent some years as a Kansas Weights and Registration Officer as well as a bunch on the road doing the big truck thing, where ya gotta get smart or die)

I have often seen people weigh and get concerned, but it makes no difference. An EMPTY truck with a gvwr of 26001 or more used in commerce requires a CDL. Makes no difference if it is empty or overloaded.

I made a long post to this and it got lost.



I thought you may have been on to something, but FLA checks out the same as FED.



I'm gonna be over 26,001 with my new trailer anyway, but other companies may suffer from his good intentions.



Unlicensed, uninsured companies need weeded out of this industry anyway, but bad information to the uninformed consumer is worse than no information.

 

[DonTX]

Unless very newly enacted, reciprocity has never extended to state CDL laws, that is only for registration stuff, fuel cards etc. However, as a good cop, I would generally never jail a fellow that was in compliance with his home state laws (Many exceptions to that, like you can't drive 70 in a 55 state, just because your home state speed limit is 70, or overload the state limits you are actually in).

 

[JHardwick]

You know what a vehicle actually weighs has never been part of CDL regulation, only the GVWR, with the emphasis on RATING. (I don't mean to be a smart alec, but I spent some years as a Kansas Weights and Registration Officer as well as a bunch on the road doing the big truck thing, where ya gotta get smart or die)

I'm fully aware of the difference. That's why my current 6 horse trailer is stripped down ... ... ... . no living quarters or tack area. It only runs 2-7,000# axles and rated at 13,XXX#. Some other 6 horse trailers are rated at close to 20,000#.



The trailer I'm looking to buy is an 8 horse with front tack and will come in with at least 8,000# axles ... ... ... have to see what they quote.

 

[JHardwick]

Unless very newly enacted, reciprocity has never extended to state CDL laws,

You see, that is very confusing and quite bogus IMO. As long as I meet federal law, and my residential state law, I should be legal.



Ohio has basically adopted federal law without any more restrictions.



Does that mean I need to conform to a very restrictive state like NM for example?



If so, I'd be prudent to search out the most restrictive state and adhere to that ... ... ... . regardless of federal or residential state law.



Hell, if thats the case, just have the most restrictive state re-write federal law.

 

[DonTX]

Tell me about it! You see why I said earlier that to be a serious commercial hauler, just get a CDL. I wish you could know how many times drivers I stopped wanted to tell me all about what THEIR state allowed. I could have cared less, when in Rome, follow the rules the Romans do or go to the Roman jail.

Things do have a way of finding a level, just a few years ago when trucking, EVERY STATE had its own maximum weight figure! You had to pick your way thru states depending on your scale ticket! At least we finally got THAT settled pretty well.

Getting a CDL is not all that big a deal, I got mine back on the first day the CDL became into being (grandfathered in I was), and have not had a use for it for 15 years now, just keep it as a badge or something I guess. For bragging rights, I have a MOTORCYCLE CDL, can anyone top that one?

You see, that is very confusing and quite bogus IMO. As long as I meet federal law, and my residential state law, I should be legal.



Ohio has basically adopted federal law without any more restrictions.



Does that mean I need to conform to a very restrictive state like NM for example?



If so, I'd be prudent to search out the most restrictive state and adhere to that ... ... ... . regardless of federal or residential state law.



Hell, if thats the case, just have the most restrictive state re-write federal law.

 

[JHardwick]

Tell me about it! You see why I said earlier that to be a serious commercial hauler, just get a CDL.

Well, we've established that DOT regulation is at least as tangled as the IRS tax code :-laf



See, the thing with this horse hauling is, for years it was a "hush-hush", "it's my pleasure horse" type of deal. When the horse was actually being hauled under contract. Well, I got my DOT back in January, and I hope to have all of my ducks in a row before the **** really hits the fan ... ... ... . but, you gots to know what **** is hitting what fan!



RV haulers do all 48 without a CDL and get by, so I assumed ... ... ... ... ... . :-laf



I've finally got my first meeting with the DOT under "New Entrant" tomorrow ... ... ... . after 6 months :-laf So we'll see.



I just don't like someone putting trash out there as bad as there needs to be regulation on this. The guy trying to be legal is always undercut by the illegal ... ... ... . man, that rang a bell for some reason



At least when I owned my machine shop, things were a little more cut and dried. I just never figured out how to service plants after they moved to India or China :-laf

 

[DonTX]

There used to be a scale house on the south side of Winfield KS, we would man it at random times, requiring all trucks to stop. Mainly it was for collecting revenue from loads crossing the state line from OK.

One of my black days there, our supervisor was visiting to check on us when a pickup truck with a new water heater in the back crossed. It was Sunday and nothing much was happening. The driver explained that the heater was for his mother in Winfield, all stores were closed on Sunday, so he had gone to OK to pick her one up and install it for her. The supervisor asked some pointed questions (to show me I was not doing my job I suppose) and the guy answered the questions all wrong. Seems he reported his mother had given him money to go get it for her and to haul it home. We made him park the truck, and took him to jail! Yep, he was hauling for hire, interstate commerce, without the proper credentials and permits. See why I quit them?

The correct answer ALWAYS should be that it is YOUR horse, water heater, or whatever unless you have the proper authority. Gets technical, but if someone "gives" you that old car, you haul YOUR car, and then "give" it back when you get to destination, might save your bacon sometime.

Then again, you COULD just go ahead and get legal.

 

[CDonaldson]

I think that the best part of it all is that the state police don't really know, they can't seem to answer any questions in a definitive manner. Even though NM has all these codes/laws/etc they certainly don't enforce them. You should see all the junk going down the road here, some of it really suprises me that it even runs. While I might be a little too anal about getting it right, more than half could care less and they never get stopped, just flagged past the portable DOT. What I have noticed lately is that they seem to have more emphasis about proper lighting and the reflector stuff. Many of the local guys are complaining about fix-it tickets for those things. I also have noticed more reflector tape on trailers here, and even more interesting is that they are putting it on from nose to tail. I hesitate to even go there with any questions regarding that stuff, the codes/laws are probably as skewed as the other stuff.



Meanwhile, I do not have a CDL and am wondering what would be needed in truck/trailer to take the driver's test. The written exam is pretty straight forward. I don't see where it would be a problem passing it. Jut comes down to what equipment would be needed for the test. Someone told me they have trucks available for testing, but geeze, crawling into a semi and passing a test with a vehicle that is unfamiliar seems more of the stumbling block. I was kind of hoping they would go to a RV endorsement or something similar. As slow as NM is regarding any changes to anything, AND, their ability to write such complicated basket-woven codes, I would actually be afraid of what they might do to this stuff. It seems to me it would be better for all the states to just adopt the fed DOT and get it over with once and for all. At least THEN the playing field would be leveled and we might stand a better chance of actually knowing what's what and complying with it.



That weekend early in June when the DOT seemed to be doing a nation-wide blitz, there were tons of trucks with 5ers and GN's pulled into them, and quite a few were getting the fine-toothed combings. That suggests to me that all of us will be seeing a greater amount of road checks in the future. Maybe this IS the DOT's way of getting us all in compliance.



CD

 

[massdiesel]

Ok is this legal. I purchased a 48 ft enclosed race trailer with living quarters. I went to the registery to register it . I asked what do I need for a license and to register it. I asked every question I could they said register it is going to be as a camper it has living quarters. I said what about the cars in the back doesnt matter it is a camper you are excluded for any other registration. You can drive it with a class c. I asked i will be towing to races nope its non comercial. I then asked a ****** off dot cop the other day he said you need a cdl I asked why he walked away does anyone know the truth on this ???????????????

 

[DonTX]

Back in the "old days" in Kansas, the Kansas Highway Patrol just HATED to stop a truck, they just had no knowledge to speak of about the trucking industry rules. Their monthly report required them however to show a certain number of truck checks. They would call me and we would go get their monthly quota in a few hours and have fun doing it at the expense of the poor truckers. Sometimes the driver would need an envelope to hold all the tickets we would both write!

Asking some poor bloke at the Highway Patrol level is usually a dangerous drill. Stop at some DOT checkpoint or portable scales and ask questions. Another good place to get valid information is at state ports of entry. I used to run one of them too, south end of the Kansas Turnpike, on the OK border.

 

[JHardwick]

We made him park the truck, and took him to jail!

When you portray yourself as the "big, bad wolf", don't act shocked when everybody is afraid of you!



This is crazy. I don't see any way of justifying that as tangled as the laws may be. It's no wonder everybody tries to fly under the radar instead of doing the right thing.



There is a guy in WI? I believe, who claims that he tried to step up and be a "legal" horse hauler ... ... ... . in his words "they were more interested in shutting me down than helping me become legal". Now, there may be some hogwash to that, buy heck who knows after reading stories of being thowed in jail for trying to replace your moms hot water tank.



Now, he stopped hauling and started this website ... ... ..... but now he set himself up as an online broker the way I see it :-laf

 

[DonTX]

You can see from the car in the photo, that was me a looooooong time ago!

 

[JHardwick]

AMC Hornet, LOL, probably had an inline 6 and 3 on the tree, LOL.

 

[DonTX]

I WAS going to ask for opinions of what the car was, but decided there was nobody that old on here anyway. You got it right, except as I recall it was an automatic. I used an IHC Carryall for a pursuit and scales carrying vehicle, did a fine job too!!

AMC Hornet, LOL, probably had an inline 6 and 3 on the tree, LOL.

 

[Simplysmn]

Yep I remember the AMC hornet I had a wagon that got Destroyed in a accident in 1986 I had 5 kids with me and we all walked out of it kids were beat up no broken bones but me I put my knee's through the dash chest around the steering wheel and head through windshield kinda made a small car out of a tunaboat

 

[johnnyMac]

(grandfathered in I was), and have not had a use for it for 15 years now, just keep it as a badge or something I guess. For bragging rights, I have a MOTORCYCLE CDL, can anyone top that one?

I was "grandfathered in" as well and have every endorsement you can get but I've never heard of a MOTORCYCLE CDL. Wazz up with dat?

 

[JHardwick]

I WAS going to ask for opinions of what the car was, but decided there was nobody that old on here anyway. You got it right, except as I recall it was an automatic. I used an IHC Carryall for a pursuit and scales carrying vehicle, did a fine job too!!

LOL, well, I'm only 40, but I went to school with a kid who drove his parents Hornet. It had and in line 6 and a 3 speed manual ... ... ... ... it wasn't fast, but it'd burn "1" tire for a city block. So, he wasn't the "in"crowd with a 4x4 or a fast car, but his smoke shows got him "in".



Whatever "in" is ... ..... I look back and nobody even cares where the "in" crowd went!



Good Memory Blast!!!!