Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Weird how a Smarty affects a dying Vp44 (APPS?)

[Mactruck]

This post is more of an observation but I'd like your opinions.

I Just got back from a 1000 mile road trip. I went down to West Virginia and before I even got out of Connecticut I was experiencing the dreaded "Dead Pedal" affect. :{



I have a Smarty and before I left I changed it to #5 setting (mild with timing)

I experienced an issue where I would accelerate and then it would stop accelerating. EGT's would drop to about 800 and no matter what I did it would not accelerate. When this happened I would back off the throttle then roll back into it and then it would stop again around 1800 rpm. No acceleration. When I Changed the setting to #7 (Medium w/ timing) it was the same.



Then I changed it to 6 (Mild with no timing) And 90% of the problems went away. I did happen intermittently but all I had to do was back off the throttle then roll back into it. I still had that dread however as I crossed over every state line thinking about how I would get the truck home if it died.



I Checked codes After I got home and I have the dreaded Po216. I am on my original vp44 and have a FASS and before that another upgraded fuel pump. I have used different fuel additives ranging from Amsoil, Lucas and Howes. In other words the VP44 is well fed.



This feels and sounds electronic and turning off the timing feature of the Smarty at least made it more driveable. Why is it that the timing made the Dead pedal more prevalent? Does the Smarty affect both the VP44 and the APPS?



I Believe the VP44 Electronics is toast, not the Pump itself.

Any Comments on Blue Chips new Special X Pump?

 

[wtfd6]

I had the same issue back in june on the way to IRP. my truck really started to act up. then on the way home it was fine. (stock software installed) it is starting to act up now more and more. I have it on level 8. (no timing) and it is still acting up. I think that the timing advancement is maybe helping a weak pump along. I love my smarty, dont get me wrong. if you have a weak pump it may just help it along. this is my thoughts anyway.

 

[John - K5AWO]

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but it isn't the electronics as much as you "and I" wanted to believe. My vp44 was acting the same way for almost two years before I finally just broke down and cried crocodile tears, forked over the cash and put in a new one. Problem resolved.

Now: Why is it not the electronics? A Bosch tech who works for Cummins called me the day before I made the big decision. He explained to me that the vp44 was slowly but surely "wearing out", that is the internal clearances were getting sloppy. When it gets bad enough, it starts to loose prime and you have hard starting. When that gets bad enough, you have to open the injector lines and bleed the thing to get it going again.

I went thru that whole sequence because I refused to fork over the cash to replace "a good vp44". Why did I think it was good? Well, because it ran good when it was running. What I did not realize though, was that "good" is a relative term when you don't have a 2nd truck handy to compare apples to apples.

I swapped rigs with my son when his diesel Suburban blew a head gasket, and he drove my truck home to San Diego. When he got home, he called me on the phone and said "Dad, how long has this truck been so sh*tty?"

Of course, I asked him what he meant. He said it didn't have any power, the turbo was way too slow to spool up. I replied, "Well, son, it's always been that way I guess. I never thought much about it, it always got me to where I wanted to go. "

Moral is: I was suckered in by the extremely slow, but sure loss of vp44 pressure to feed fuel to that Cummins. I didn't want to believe it, but when it was replaced, my boy said the truck was back to "normal, sort of. " Okay, what is wrong with it now? Well, it needs a torque converter dad..... weepy tears come to my eyes... he says "the engine pulls strong, but the truck don't move! okay, so now it is time to buy stronger transmission parts.

But I digress, the point is, the symptoms you describe are a failing vp44 that is still working just fine, just not good enough.

I also thought "APPS", and now I have a spare APPS on my shelf because that was not the problem.

So, just save up the bux, or fork 'em over now, and replace the vp44.

I chose Diesel performance parts and accessories. Diesel injectors, pumps, filters, kits, additive, gauges and apparel. because they have great customer service and do not charge a core charge up front. I'll be back to them again when I need their type of services.

John

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Now: Why is it not the electronics? A Bosch tech who works for Cummins

John

Would a Bosch tech that works for Cummins be similar to a Cummins tech that works for Dodge? When people have credentials and throw out information like they know what they are saying we tend to believe it and often these techs only have a two day training course to make them smarter than us so they can be called techs. I really have to question his reasoning about your pump though.



According to your signature your truck has 116,000 miles on it, your injection pump wasn't wore out internally in that short amount of mileage! Mine has 174,257 miles on it right now and runs great and dynos well also. You may have had a bad pump and some part may have worn out but that doesn't mean it happens to every one of them. Mactrucks problem very well could be electronics on the pump but could also be the pump itself.

 

[John - K5AWO]

A good point Tim...
Guess the best I can say on this it seemed to fix my problems when the vp44 was replaced.

A funny thing happened on the way to the quorum item:
I changed the lift pump because a new one comes with the vp44 supplied by Midwest Fuel Injection. It was there, so why not use it?

About 3 weeks later, the old pump which remained with my boy who did the work was put to service as an emergency (2 a. m. field repair) for a customer of the employer that he works for.

That pump started leaking fuel from the connector port on the bottom of the pump about a week later. What are the odds of that?

Made me wonder it did... . was that old lift pump leaking occassionally and causing the loss of prime? Never know now, and don't care. But it does cause one to wonder a bit.

 

[FourBarR]

I have read all the vp-44 pump problems and all the explanations . having said that ,i have never seen an explanation as to why my pump is still running perfectly at 452,000kms. Its one of the very early one that are supposed to be the worst. Is it because i have not boosted the power,never abused it and used howes meaner and mmo almost since new. I also have had gauges since new. On the 4th. lift pump,back at the tank. Im not complaining just curious.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Luck of the draw FourBar. My early build (June 98) VP44 is the original with 230,000 miles on it and I've had the pump wire tapped running a powermax since 24,000 miles. Upgraded to a PM3 at 50,000 and at about 68,000 went to custom programming in the PM3 that puts the max duty cycle for the solenoid at 70% (comp box is set to a max of 65%) - and I leave my box on level 7 all the time except when I'm towing and I turn it down to 5! LOL

I have had a fuel pressure gauge on the truck since about 28,000 miles and went through a bunch of lift pumps until I added a pusher pump at 65k. #1 thing is to make sure you always have good fuel pressure to the pump IMO.

 

[GiesJ]

It's hit or miss, IMHO. Some guys just have a solid pump, some don't. I think that is what makes the VP44 such a questionable pump. Because some are reliable.

My 5th VP44 is on it's way out, slowly. Two have left me high and dry and two rebuilds sucked with fuel pouring everywhere. One pump that left me stranded was probably due to my Comp and the others have at most seen an EZ. FP has always been monitored but I do not have an aftermarket system (fass, big line kit, etc).

Not sure what to do next...

 

[Mactruck]

John & Steve

I think your both right. My problem immediately seems to be the electronics of the pump.



But my truck hasn't been running to par. I have had a suspected boost leak and driveability issues that may be related to the pump.



I'm going to have Scott @ Massdiesel go through it. I may be picking up Blue Chips new X Pump. We shall see.