Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) MY Turn : VP 44 & lift pump failure

[MWinters]

I have a bone stock 99 w/the only addition is a Westach 30 psi pressure gage. Purchased new in April 99 w/109,000 miles now. Last weekend the lift pump & VP 44 failed while I was out of town. The error codes were PO1688 & also PO253. So I get a new VP44 & the Dodge conversion kit to place the pump in the tank. On the 350 mile trip home, the fuel pressure read 5 to 8 psi. This seems logical as the pump is now further away from the fuel filter, so I would expect lower pressures now. However, I am still concerned that I may/will? have another lift pump failure down the road . So now I am looking for options to consider to remedy this :



1. We all heard Dodge's position on this subject regarding the relocation of the lift pump to the tank. Dodge says it's only flow that you need, don't worry about pressure. This does not make me feel real comfortable. How has the reliability of the in-tank pumps been?



2. I know several have updated to FASS/Air Dog, etc. I'm guessing most have mounted this to the frame rail near the tank. How has this held up - I'm concerned w/road debris, snow, rain, etc affecting electric terminal life & durability, or just plain damage to the unit itself ( I took out one of my running boards a few years ago on I65 south of Indy when I could not avoid a "gator" or truck re-tread in the road so the potential for road damage is there)



2. I'm strongly considering updating to the FASS/Air Dog or similar systems. Since I now have the in tank pump, does this has to be removed & replaced w/a different pickup tube ? Since I do not have the original pickup system now, would the Vulcan draw straws be a logical update ? Are there any other systems out there to consider ?



3. I necessarily do not have to drive this truck on a regular basis. If I am maintaining a min of 5 psi on my fuel pressure gage, do I need to be concerned w/VP 44 wear ? The reason I ask this is in the Issue 55 of the TDR, page 45, Joe Donnelly mentioned that the VP 44 is a small pump & may "mask" fuel pressure readings. I'm not sure exactly what he means by this, other than I should probably not put 100% faith in my pressure gage readings. So should I park, or drive @ bare minimum, until I get an upgrade ?



Thanks,

Mike.

 

[OPoole]

I have only stacked 1 truck with the intank and FASS working great so far. I have tried to talk my customer into taking out the intank and installing a 1/2 pick up? But he is happy so far we will see. .

 

[mhenon]

1. We all heard Dodge's position on this subject regarding the relocation of the lift pump to the tank. Dodge says it's only flow that you need, don't worry about pressure. This does not make me feel real comfortable. How has the reliability of the in-tank pumps been?

In-tank pumps are, as a rule, generally reliable. Most vehicles made today have in-tank pumps. The problem with the pump Dodge uses is the pressure. I don't care what they say. . "0"psi isn't acceptable. I could suck mine down to"0" just by getting on it going up hill.

As a pusher though I think it's a great little pump and should supply a nice head of pressure to whatever LP you decide to go with. The problem would be replacing one if it did go belly up. You've got to drop the tank to get at it.

I've been running an in-tank to frame mounted Carter LP with good results so far. Time will tell if this holds up but I decided to go with what DC gave me after replacing the VP under warrenty.

Mike

 

[twist1]

I did the fuel pump replacement and have seen the 8 lbs idle 2lbs wfo up hill with camper on, dodge said same flow story when asked about pressures.

 

[Missouri Mule]

MWinters, what Joe was talking about is the Vp44 will pull fuel from the tank if current lift pump quits working eventually burning up the vp44.

The intake pumps will not allow fuel to go through it if the pump stops working.

 

[mhenon]

The intake pumps will not allow fuel to go through it if the pump stops working.

Missouri Mule, you can draw fuel through the in-tank with it off. I can shut off the in-tank pump with a switch mounted in the cab. The Carter LP will suck fuel through it and maintain about 10psi. You can definitely hear it straining and I wouldn't run it long like that. . but it will run fine.

It works the other way around too. I can shut down the Carter and the in-tank will keep it's usual 5psi going to the VP.

As to the VP drawing fuel through a dead in-tank pump... . I'd bet it would keep running. Just wouldn't want to subject the VP44 to negative fuel pressure for very long. A fuel pressure gauge is a must with this IP.

Mike

 

[Pete Foley]

I had to replace my injector pump after 135K miles. Dodge wanted to relocate lift pump to fuel tank. They tried to convince me that the lift pump was bad. I the lift pump was producing 14 PSI on regular basis. They tried that flow B. S as well. It seems to me without pressure you wouldn't have much flow. I said no to their tank relocation. I installed a Vulcan relocation kit instead. My fuel pressure before relocating was about 14 PSI after relocating, it's 12 -10 PSI. This is a lift pump installed by Cumins about 100K miles ago. The dodge dealer wouldn't install the Vulcan, of course. As I live on the left coast with ULSD for some time now I have decide to use Diesel Kleen for luberication of the VP44

 

[MWinters]

VP 44 data

OK guys, if you've read my initial post I had a combo failure of the stock lift pump & VP44 while out of town. I had the Dodge dealer do the intank replacement of the lift pump along w/getting a new VP44 installed. Again I have a bone stock truck w/the only addition of a fuel pressure gage.



I have a friend who is a Cummins engineer & told him of my problems & concerns -especially as related to what seems to be the general consensus on this website that the VP44 needs 15 psi, & I'm now getting 5 to 8 psi w/the new set up. He did some investigations & told me the 5 to 8 psi pressures were OK. He stated as long as the VP44 maintains positive pressure, it will be OK.



My questions are:



1. How many have had the stock lift pump fail, get the in tank repair done as prescribed by Dodge, & still have a VP 44 failure ?



2. Does anyone else have data to indicate the VP44 really needs higher pressures than 5 to 8 psi ?



3. Since I tend to be very conservative & don't necessarily enjoy shelling out $ 2000 plus for another VP44 failure, I might want to go ahead & add in a "better" system. This is my dilemna - either add in another pump like Holly Blue or others & keep the in tank pump, or just upgrade the whole system @ once to a FASS or similar setup. Any thoughts here ?



Sorry to keep beating this dead horse, but w/conflicting data re: the VP44 & the pressures it needs to survive, I'm not sure how to resolve the problem.



Thanks,



Mike.

 

[Pete Foley]

VP44 Failure due to low fuel pressure or ULSD?

My VP44 never had low fuel pressure. I have had a pressure gage installed since 2000. My lift pump pressure has always been 12+ psi. The pump had 135k miles on it and I live in Calif. , where USLD has been used for a couple of years now. My opinion on my failure is that the ULSD caused the failure. I am real faithful about replacing the fuel filter and monitoring psi. I installed the Vulcan relocation kit with no decease in fuel psi. I also am adding Power Source, gray bottle, at every fuel up. I wouldn't let Dodge do their relocation kit solution. I didn't want the lift pump in the fuel tank. My 99' 1 Ton is totally stock expect for the AFE air cleaner.

 

[John - K5AWO]

My truck had 116,000 on it when the VP failed. It looked like a reman but can't be sure. I bought the truck at 87,000. While I had it, the fuel pressure never dropped below about 10 psi and the OEM pump always gave me about 13-16 depending on throttle.

When I replaced it, I put on a new lift pump just to "feel good" about it. Also installed a low pressure alarm light from Geno's which is preset at 6 psi. Never see that light burn except when you turn the key on.

All the reading I have done has made me feel comfortable with the VP as long as it has positive pressure. One Bosch rebuilder who I talked with said that IF the VP44 was provided as little as 5 psi and never lower than that, it would run forever (figuratively speaking ).

I sure am hoping that the new rebuilt versions are a lot better than the old ones... ...
John

 

[DPrew]

My VP44 & lift went out at 109K. I wasted my money on another OEM lift pump because I didn't know better at the time. At the time my truck was stock and even in stock trim I could get my low pressure light to start to flicker at 2000 rpm's at full throttle. The engine would also stop pulling hard once I hit about 2200 rpms.

With the FASS setup my truck will pull hard all the way to redline. It's not possible to get the low pressure light to come on now. I've got a Comp, Smarty, and F1 1. 6 injectors pushing a lot more fuel now with no pressure issues. The FASS system also takes the air out of the fuel which does a better job of lubricating the expensive VP44. I also get a truck that vibrates less and is supposed to get about 6% better fuel economy. I always add a fuel additive as well to help keep things better lubricated. The FASS system is tucked up high enough that it should be difficult to damage.

 

[MWinters]

My turn : VP 44 & lift pump failed

Thanks to all for the comments. I think I've got a better understanding of my current situation & possible options to pursue.



Mike Winters