CI-4 Oil Hunting

[roperteacher]

I just got off the phone with Valvolene ( The number listed above) and they said they are no longer making it and none of their plants or distributers have any in inventory... .

 

[davidsze]

found CI-4

Valvoline Oil Company change CI-4 plus to Premium Blue Classic Part number 591840 -1 gallon 15/40w. order at Napa

problem solve

 

[Cal Brewin]

Although I have been happy with the CJ-4 Rotella, I may give the Castrol GTX Diesel a try on my next oil change. Not a spectacular looking VOA on the sample I took, but nothing to be afraid of either. It has a TBN of 10. 5, and it is rated CI-4, same as recommended for my year truck. I doubt the wear metals will be of any concern during the OCI, as I don't extend past the recommended 7500 mile OCI for severe duty.

 

[JHardwick]

Y'all are chasing your tail!

 

[CarlsonR]

anyone read this quarters new TDR issue?? premium blue and Rotella rated excellant and good Amsoil rated POOR lets watch the amsoil dealers explain that one !!!!!!

 

[RKinkead]

anyone read this quarters new TDR issue?? premium blue and Rotella rated excellant and good Amsoil rated POOR lets watch the amsoil dealers explain that one !!!!!!

I'm betting they tested the Amsoil DEO 5w40 CJ oil and/or the Amsoil AFL 5w40 European oil made for the VW TDI 505. 01 spec. Neither would be optimum for the 5. 9 CTD.



I'm getting ready to change to the Amsoil HDD 5W30 at my next oil change. I'm currently running M1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40. Amsoil's AME 15W40 would also be a good choice.



I am not and never have been an Amsoil dealer...

 

[WhiteSheep]

Wrong Amsoil tested in TDR

The Amsoil tested in the latest TDR was the lighter duty 5w40. The heavy duty marine diesel 15w40 is the weight recommended by Dodge and has a TBN of 12. I don't understand why the lighter oil was tested as this is not what most of us would choose.

 

[amsoilman]

The Amsoil tested in the latest TDR was the lighter duty 5w40. The heavy duty marine diesel 15w40 is the weight recommended by Dodge and has a TBN of 12. I don't understand why the lighter oil was tested as this is not what most of us would choose.

There are a number of things that I see that is wrong with the so called "Analysis of lube oil" to determine the quality of lube oil by the additive package only.

First off, oils are made up of base stocks as well as the additives that when properly formulated will determine the quality of the finished product!



I do not think the article in the TDR magazine was published to determine the Quality of the oil! If you look at the article, Mr. Martin was asked to "comment" on the oils, and he did pick out the CJ-4 oils from the CI-4 oils based on the Additives in the oils.



In my opinion, as well as others, the Amsoil (number 10 in the report) shows the price of the (AME) 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine oil, but the report shows some wrong info, such as the Viscosity@100 C. ,TBN, Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorus, and Zinc.



The ( AME) when new has a Viscosity @ 100 C of 14. 4 cSt and the TBN is 12 plus.

My first oil analysis on my CTD with 10,800 miles on the oil showed a Viscosity of 13. 85 cSt @ 100 C. and my TBN was 11. 42. Calcium was 3955, Magnesium was 69, Phosphorus was 1190, Zinc was 1365. ALL numbers higher than the report shows!



My latest oil analysis with 60,000 miles on the oil, shows Viscosity of 15. 69 cSt @ 100 C. and my TBN is 5. 66. Calcium is 4168, Magnesium is 35, Phosphorus is 1181, Zinc is 1598. Once again ALL these numbers are higher than what was reported in the TDR magazine!



Have I added oil to my engine since installing the oil and By-Pass in my truck? Yes, I have added about 3 quarts of oil and both filters changed since 8,500 miles on the truck, and now have nearly 70,000 on it.



I do not believe you can tell the quality of oil simply by the additive package!



Can you tell the API "Service" classification by the additives? The answer to that is YES! And that is primarily what Mr. Martin was doing.



I believe if you really want to tell how an oil will perform, put it to work! Then you will see the real value of the oil.



If I look at the oil in my truck based on the "working performance" of the oil substantiated by the UOA, the oil I use is doing a tremendous job!





Wayne

 

[roperteacher]

Wayne, you really run that oil 60,000 miles??? I totally BELIEVE you, but I need to have quality time with my new girl far more often than that. I think I change my oil every 5,000 just so I can insopect all the goodies under the hood etc. . LOLOLL

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, you really run that oil 60,000 miles??? I totally BELIEVE you, but I need to have quality time with my new girl far more often than that. I think I change my oil every 5,000 just so I can insopect all the goodies under the hood etc. . LOLOLL

Monty,

Yup, I sure have, and hope to go much further!



Wayne

 

[DieselFiend]

I'm so freaking confused. I just changed my oil and got the cummins premium blue and it says CI-4+ but also says CJ. Did I put the wrong stuff in? Should the label only read CI-4+ and nothing else?

 

[RSimmons]

I'm so freaking confused. I just changed my oil and got the cummins premium blue and it says CI-4+ but also says CJ. Did I put the wrong stuff in? Should the label only read CI-4+ and nothing else?

Yep, you just got the new CJ oil labeled to look like the CI-4+ at quick glance.

 

[roperteacher]

And the CJ stuff is FINE to run!! It is backwards compatible. I am in the process of ordering Classic Blue. . the PB Ci4+ that they are just starting to market!

 

[DieselFiend]

The stuff I bought is part number VV70509. It's Cummins Premium blue and it has CI-4+ in bold but also says it exceeds CJ standards.

 

[roperteacher]

Yep, your good to go and I also used that oil once and had a great UOA!

 

[Buffalo]

DieselFiend,



You 'DID' get the CJ-4 oil. The CI-4+, CI-4, etc. indicate that it is "backwards compatible".



Don't worry about it. You're OK with it, especially, if you are burning ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel) fuel. Worst case scenario, just change the oil at about 5000 miles, no matter what fuel you are using (LSD), & you'll be fine.



The CJ-4 leaves something to be desired if you're using extended oil drain intervals (lots of miles between oil changes).



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[DieselFiend]

I am using extended drain intervals. So I guess I'll change that stuff at 5,000 miles and get the right stuff next time. I was using amsoil 15-40 diesel/marine but it's super expensive and the report in TDR made me realize I'm probably spending a lot more money than I need to spend on oil.

 

[amsoilman]

I am using extended drain intervals. So I guess I'll change that stuff at 5,000 miles and get the right stuff next time. I was using amsoil 15-40 diesel/marine but it's super expensive and the report in TDR made me realize I'm probably spending a lot more money than I need to spend on oil.

The testing done by the TDR is no more than an oil analysis, which will show "wear Metals", Physical Properties such as Viscosity, Contaminants such as water, fuel, soot, dirt. and (TBN) total base number.

(reserve alkalinity)



THey did not report what Base oils were used, nor did they report such things as:

Viscosity Index



Not the same as the viscosity rating, the viscosity index describes how well oil resists thinning at high temperatures and thickening at low temperatures. It is not so much an absolute rating as it is an indication of how the oil will perform relative to its own viscosity rating. A high viscosity index means the viscosity of the oil will undergo little change due to variances in temperature.



Pour Point



This is the measure of the oil's ability to function when cold. The importance of a low pour point is a prime reason to consider synthetics when the temperature dips.



Volatility



Volatility is the measure of the amount of oil that "boils off" under heat. It is no surprise that petroleum motor oil takes a beating on this one. These figures are derived from ASTM D-1160 tests. These tests validate the claim that chemically "pure" base stocks are better, as the distillation curves of the diesters are nearly flat compared to petrolium based fluids.



Heck, my UOA on my '03 Dodge reports more Calcium, Phoshporous and Zinc with 60,000 miles on the oil, than what was reported in the TDR articel! MAkes me wonder if they were reporting the correct stuff!



The bottom line of course "put the oil to work", then do a report on it! You simply can't tell how an oil is going to perform by the additives alone!



Wayne

 

[DieselFiend]

That's exactly what I'm doing. Putting the oil to work but I'm going to use the TDR report as a benchmark. Although AMSOIL is perfectly fine, it's expensive. Why use it if something else will do an equally fine job but at a more economical price? Give me AMSOIL 15W-40 syn Diesel/marine at $15 a gallon and I'll keep using it. If not, I'm going to try another oil.

 

[amsoilman]

That's exactly what I'm doing. Putting the oil to work but I'm going to use the TDR report as a benchmark. Although AMSOIL is perfectly fine, it's expensive. Why use it if something else will do an equally fine job but at a more economical price? Give me AMSOIL 15W-40 syn Diesel/marine at $15 a gallon and I'll keep using it. If not, I'm going to try another oil.

I guess you'd better try a different oil, as The (AME) Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine has gone up over the years! Cost is more than $15. 00 a Gallon!



Wayne