Lengthening Toy Hauler

[TFlewitt]

I posted this question on an RV forum which only generated "too hard to do" responses from folks who obviously don't enjoy getting their hands dirty. Hopefully I'll find some more constructive comments here.



We are looking for a Toy Hauler and need a 14' garage (stacking 2 ATVs above floor). We are looking at a few different used KZ Escalade and New Vision Sportsters (41CKS-42' length/41KG-43'8"). They only have 10' garages and am thinking about lengthening the garage/rear by 4' and moving the axles back 2'. Already spoken with various engineering departments of different manufacturers and this is what they do when custom lengthening coaches when new. Warranty expired so not an issue. Looking for opinions on feasability and for referrals/recommendations on a RV frame/coach company to modify, or might even do it myself if I can block out the time.



In these particular models, it would entail moving the spring hangers on the bottom of the frame, lengthening the wheel wells into the garage area (like another of KZs shorter models) and minor skin mods (fiberglass). Appliances and cabinets would not have to be touched. It is really just removing the rear ramp and extending the frame/sidewalls/roof 4 feet. KZ won't lengthen coaches anymore because of financial reasons, and seems to be a difficult company to work with anyways. Looking for constructive advice, not "omygods"! Thanks!

 

[Jeepinjason]

Did you think about double towing a small trailer for the extra two ATV's? I have double towed a couple of large jet ski's on a single axle trailer behind mine with no problem.

 

[TFlewitt]

Did you think about double towing a small trailer for the extra two ATV's? I have double towed a couple of large jet ski's on a single axle trailer behind mine with no problem.

Hi Jason, thanks for your reply. The reason we are going with a toy hauler is because we will be traveling all over, to some states and Canada, that don't allow double towing. We were all set to double tow when research found that we couldn't even get into some states/provinces - not even with a permit - like BC, Oregon, Texas, to name a few. It is not going to be as versatile as a double tow, but this is the best setup that we can devise for our needs as a family.

 

[BDW]

I have not personally extended a toy hauler but have been involved extending/modifying other trailers. It's certainly possible but will be time consuming to do right. Matching the original skin I think would be your biggest problem. Everything thing else is just fabrication. Just make sure you keep your ratios (front to back) correct for axle location and make doublly sure everything is sqaure and you will have a great pulling, 1of a kind trailer. Keep us posted.

 

[TGibbs]

We have hauled doubles out of Texas and through Oregon. Is it the length that is getting you???

 

[oneshotkyle]

my 3814ss raptor toy hauler already has a 14' foot garage. hauls 4 quads without any stacking. i think weekend warrior is about the only one you could custom order one through, but not positive. good luck.

 

[JCasper]

I have a friend who's parents built a rack over the cab of their truck for two atv's. They haul a 5er at the same time.



I will try to get pictures.

 

[Boondocker]

Instead of lengthening the whole trailer, would you consider remodeling the inside to make the garage bigger? I have no idea what that would entail on your rig, but I imagine it would be easier and possibly more structurally sound than lengthening. Another alternative if you're only loading quads maybe some kind of ramp/rack to diagonally park them (vertically that is) \\\\

 

[TFlewitt]

double towing

We have hauled doubles out of Texas and through Oregon. Is it the length that is getting you???

Hi, don't know when the last time was that you towed doubles in those states, but they don't allow it anymore. Do you mean commercial towing, with a commercially registered vehicle from another state than these? I've talked to the Highway patrol from both states and you can't even get a permit to tow double non-commercially. More and more states are stopping this practice. The length isn't the issue, the double tow is. You might want to take a look at these road law sites.

State Towing Laws

Rules of the Road

 

[JimB1]

If the original deck and extension deck piece aren't beefy enough then over time the extra load + longer moment arm will flex down the deck near the rear end and you'll have sidewall to deck sepertion. So calculate in the cargo load factor and metal fatique factor for the distance and types of roads. I'm not so savvy on sidewall skin & roof matching but I do know for sure that if the deck flex's too much than all the rest is for naught.

 

[TFlewitt]

14' garage

my 3814ss raptor toy hauler already has a 14' foot garage. hauls 4 quads without any stacking. i think weekend warrior is about the only one you could custom order one through, but not positive. good luck.

We've looked at Raptors and WW, but like the floorplan, quality, and features of the KZs. The 14' garage is needed not just for the toys, but for carrying other things, aswell as a washer/dryer, workshop, and another room for the kids, dog, etc. Weekend Warrior will actually go way beyond 50', but we weren't impressed with the quality, insulation, and reputation.

 

[TFlewitt]

Cab-over ATV rack

I have a friend who's parents built a rack over the cab of their truck for two atv's. They haul a 5er at the same time.



I will try to get pictures.

That would be interesting to see the pictures. I had already drawn up plans for a covered, removable rack like this, and may eventually do if we find we need more capacity. How is the rack supported at the front? Is it an open or covered storage?

 

[TFlewitt]

Remodeling

Instead of lengthening the whole trailer, would you consider remodeling the inside to make the garage bigger? I have no idea what that would entail on your rig, but I imagine it would be easier and possibly more structurally sound than lengthening. Another alternative if you're only loading quads maybe some kind of ramp/rack to diagonally park them (vertically that is) \\\\

This would actually be impossible because there are slides on both side that extend right back to the garage.

 

[TFlewitt]

Engineering

If the original deck and extension deck piece aren't beefy enough then over time the extra load + longer moment arm will flex down the deck near the rear end and you'll have sidewall to deck sepertion. So calculate in the cargo load factor and metal fatique factor for the distance and types of roads. I'm not so savvy on sidewall skin & roof matching but I do know for sure that if the deck flex's too much than all the rest is for naught.

Thanks, that is why I've talked to the engineering departments at KZ and Travel Supreme. The frame would be extended and additional gussets added. The last 4' are not going to carrying a lot of weight, and I really don't need the extra 4' because I want to cram it full of heavy stuff. I don't see exceeding the original weight capacities (axles aren't changing), just need the extra room. The axles placement would be moved backwards 1/2 the distance of the additional length, as per engineering department advice.

 

[icman95]

About a year and a half ago I bought a 33 foot KZ and seem to remember seeing a bigger one in their catalog with a 14 foot garage. Mine has a 10 footer like the one you're looking at and is ok for me, but I wish I could remember what length unit had the 14 footer. Forget that-just went on KZ's website and answered my own question. The Sportsmen Sportster model # 41k floorplan says that it has a 14 foot garage. I think this would provide you with a unit that is less time consuming and more structurally sound than hacking up a new one. Here's the link to their floorplan page. Scroll down to the model 41k and enlarge. It should show you what you're looking for. Good luck in your search.



KZ RV - Sportsmen Sportster - Floorplans

 

[JCasper]

That would be interesting to see the pictures. I had already drawn up plans for a covered, removable rack like this, and may eventually do if we find we need more capacity. How is the rack supported at the front? Is it an open or covered storage?

I will try and get some pics. My buddy is working out of town, but I will be camping with him this weekend. Hopefully he has some pics of it. It is not covered.



I also saw a guy a couple months ago that had a setup that looked like a heavy duty lumber rack on his truck. It then had a ramp that folded down into the bed, it was hinged right around the front of the bed. He used that ramp to drive two quads on top, then the third quad he drove onto the ramp and raised it up using a hydraulic cylinder. Then the 4th quad went into the bed of the truck underneath the rack.



With all that on his truck he backed up to his TT and away he went. I wish I would of got pictures, but didn't. Looking at his setup I would be concerned about the strength of everything hanging over the cab without supports. It looked well built, but all the weight would of been transfered to the bed rails and I don't know how he reinforced those.

 

[AMink]

The double tow issue is different between TT and 5er in some states. I'm not sure how it works, but if you have a 5er, you can double tow in some places that you can't with a tt. Laws like this should, IMHO, be national, not state by state. It would certainly make it easier on the trailer towing population.

 

[surfbeetle]

The double tow issue is different between TT and 5er in some states. I'm not sure how it works, but if you have a 5er, you can double tow in some places that you can't with a tt. Laws like this should, IMHO, be national, not state by state. It would certainly make it easier on the trailer towing population.

So I have a 5ver and a commercial class A license. I haven't been to Texas, I wonder if semis are allowed to tow doubles in that State. If they are, what would the difference be with a commerical driver and a Fifth Wheel?

 

[TFlewitt]

KZ Toyhauler

About a year and a half ago I bought a 33 foot KZ and seem to remember seeing a bigger one in their catalog with a 14 foot garage. Mine has a 10 footer like the one you're looking at and is ok for me, but I wish I could remember what length unit had the 14 footer. Forget that-just went on KZ's website and answered my own question. The Sportsmen Sportster model # 41k floorplan says that it has a 14 foot garage. I think this would provide you with a unit that is less time consuming and more structurally sound than hacking up a new one. Here's the link to their floorplan page. Scroll down to the model 41k and enlarge. It should show you what you're looking for. Good luck in your search.



KZ RV - Sportsmen Sportster - Floorplans

Thanks Ken, we've looked at this floorplan in the model above, the New Vision Sportster. If we decide not to modify, we may go this way, but we liked the larger floorplan - bigger kitchen, more space (4 kids!), dedicated desk/computer area (we plan on extended travel and homeschool our kids so we need lots of workspace), etc.



Hey, I resent the "hacking up a new one" comment Ken!!! Seriously, if we decide to modify, it will be a used coach and I don't think I've ever "hacked" anything up before. It would be well engineered and built. Just trying to find someone that has a little more experience doing this type of mod for pointers and caveats. Has anyone seen the video online of the computer programmer that built his own good quality 5th wheel with a slide? Maybe I'll have to give him a jingle to get his thoughts.



Ken, you've had your KZ for a while - what are your thoughts? Have you used it a little or a lot? What are your thoughts on quality, functionality, etc. Any problems with it? Thanks!

 

[TFlewitt]

ATV cab-over mount

I will try and get some pics. My buddy is working out of town, but I will be camping with him this weekend. Hopefully he has some pics of it. It is not covered.



I also saw a guy a couple months ago that had a setup that looked like a heavy duty lumber rack on his truck. It then had a ramp that folded down into the bed, it was hinged right around the front of the bed. He used that ramp to drive two quads on top, then the third quad he drove onto the ramp and raised it up using a hydraulic cylinder. Then the 4th quad went into the bed of the truck underneath the rack.



With all that on his truck he backed up to his TT and away he went. I wish I would of got pictures, but didn't. Looking at his setup I would be concerned about the strength of everything hanging over the cab without supports. It looked well built, but all the weight would of been transfered to the bed rails and I don't know how he reinforced those.

The perceived mounting on the bed rails does sound questionable. But if he engineered in a hydraulic lift, he must have had something on the ball. The mounts for my plans would be supported by the frame, front and rear. The ramp folds in sections and sits on the bed rails, then utilizes standard ramps to get to the ground. Looking forward to see your pics! Thanks!