Oil analysis? High Copper

[DieselFiend]

Just got my most recent oil sample results back from Blackstone.



Truck has 64,000 miles on it. I'm running extended drain intervals at 10,000 miles. Engine oil is/was AMSOIL 15w-40 with a fleetgaurd filter. Blackstone said my oil came back with the copper at 110 PPM. They also said that all other wear metals looked normal so they are baffled as to why the copper was so high. They told me to drop my drain interval down to 5,000 miles for the time being and sample again just to be safe. What do you all think? Do I have a bearing going bad or was this just an invalid sample? What kind of part would go bad and just show copper wear metal?

 

[JHardwick]

My first sample came back with 65ppm Cu ... ... ... ... . that was 300,000 miles ago, LOL I run 12,000-18,000 mile drains with Shell Rotella.



I'm, currently on a 25,000 mile drain with filter changes ... ... ... ... samples due in next week.

 

[JFaughn]

I've read that a high copper number may be the heat exchanger having an issue , thats the thing on the pass. side ft. of eng. , next to oil filter .

 

[Johnstra]

Yep, oil cooler.

-john

 

[05mxdiesel]

First thing I would do is follow blackstone's reccomendations and do a sample at 5k. I have had high copper throughout the life of my engine at 60k but it has always been in single digit numbers. Many other vehicles such as Gm's always leach copper from their oil coolers which can skew analysis results. I would pm amsoilman on here and see if he has any advice for you. Also post your the results from your report on here as well for others to help assist you.

 

[05mxdiesel]

Here is another 06 with high copper



Bob Is The Oil Guy: '06 Dodge CTD Red Line 15W-40 5,907 miles w/ P. C.

 

[steved]

The high copper may be a result of the Amsoil... I have read that somewhere on the dodge forums or BITOG? Can't remember if it was thought to have been an interaction with the Amsoil and other oils, or Amsoil cleaning stuff out...

I would say drain and refill, then resample to see if you get the same results next time...

steved

 

[Cattletrkr]

It's the oil cooler. Mine went from single digits to 190 something. Next analysis came back "normal". It's not a prpblem. I posted about this a short while ago in the General section here. Look for it, there's some good info in that thread.

 

[steved]

It's the oil cooler. Mine went from single digits to 190 something. Next analysis came back "normal". It's not a prpblem. I posted about this a short while ago in the General section here. Look for it, there's some good info in that thread.

Its not a problem as long as it doesn't trend high... right?



steved

 

[Cattletrkr]

Its not a problem as long as it doesn't trend high... right?

steved

Right. From what I've read it will spike for an analysis or two and then go back to normal.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/general-diesel-topics/186021-high-copper-levels.html

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Correct. When the copper shot sky high on my 2001 it was that way for 2 oil changes then dropped off dramatically.

DieselFiend this is a very common thing, you can find quite a few threads about high copper readings. . . never has caused a problem for anyone.

Vaughn

 

[DieselFiend]

Thanks guys. I'll resample in 5,000 and see where we're at.

 

[MMeier]

I had one come back at 102PPM at 87k miles, have n't done one since, might here on next change out. First 2 samples I did came in at 13 PPM @34k and 29 PPM @44k. Been running Amsoil stuff for about 165 k now. 188k on rig now.

 

[amsoilman]

I'll post this again!



"Per Caterpillar, high levels of copper found in oil analysis are a result of engine cooler core” leaching". The Zinc additive in Diesel Motor oil reacts with the copper cooler core tubes at high oil temperatures. This chemical reaction results in copper oxidation products forming on the surface of the tubes and then coming off into the oil as it washes over and around the tubes. Heat is a catalyst to this chemical reaction. The higher the oil temperature the greater the rate of oxidation and the longer the reaction process is sustained. This does not cause any damage to the cooler core, or to the engine. However, you will see the copper reading elevate to over 100 PPM. Copper is not a particulate in this case but is in solution in the oil. The PPM will start relatively low and increase over 100 PPM and stay at high levels for several intervals, and then return to normal. During the oxidation process, a hard film forms on the tube surfaces exhibiting the appearance of clear varnish. Changes in operating temperatures, and/or changing oil brands can chemically disrupt this film and begin the oxidative leaching processes again. This can occur in any system with a cooler core: Gasoline or Diesel engines transmissions or hydraulic systems. "



High Copper readings alone is not a problem.

Wayne

 

[05mxdiesel]

Wayne, since the copper is not a particulate, is it a good idea to listen to blackstone and drop the oil even though tbn and the rest of the engine wear is all ok? If it ever happens to me, I just don't want to drop $100 worth of oil for nothing. Thanks

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne, since the copper is not a particulate, is it a good idea to listen to blackstone and drop the oil even though tbn and the rest of the engine wear is all ok? If it ever happens to me, I just don't want to drop $100 worth of oil for nothing. Thanks

As you say, the copper readings reported by "blackstone" are not a particulate as in a "wear metal", so as long as the other wear metals are not reported as being high, I would not worry about it. My latest analysis reported with 60,000 miles on oil showed Copper at 322, and at 31,500 miles on oil it was reported as Copper 254, yet Chromium has never been above 3, lead never above 8 and Alluminum has never been above 13. My high reading of Copper is definately not a problem!



Wayne

 

[05mxdiesel]

thanks, thats what I was looking for. If its not going to cause more wear or break the oil down, its not a problem